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  • #207308
    Anonymous
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    I have plagiarized an article I wrote elsewhere for this, for relevant sections. Therefore, it’s a bit disjointed. There are other, more obvious points, and I will make them in a reply, e.g. Gandalf resembles Christ in certain ways.

    Quote:

    JRR Tolkien (1892-1973) was an English academic born in South Africa. His main interests were in Anglo-Saxon and Norse. A vast body of unfinished work was edited by his son, Christopher, and published posthumously. Over fifty million copies of his books have been sold, in over thirty languages.

    [edit to add – Tolkien was a devout Roman Catholic. His mother was a convert. After being orphaned at an early age, he was raised by a priest.]

    The Hobbit (1937) was developed from a children’s story. Contrary popular belief, the word “hobbit” was not coined by Tolkien. It is a diminutive of “hob”, an old English word found in “hobgoblin”, and the “hobby horse”, which originally a figure found in old dances such as that of Padstow in Cornwall.

    Despite his massive popularity, literary critics have not been kind to Tolkien. Their biggest mistake, in many cases, is to isolate him from contemporary trends. In actual fact, Tolkien’s work is all too twentieth century. Like Ernest Hemingway for example, Tolkien was heavily traumatised by WWI. And the way he felt about industrialisation, urbanisation and pollution echoes Rachel Carson.

    Modernism paralleled Tolkien in mixing myth, legend and folklore with modern experience. We can see this in the works of WB Yeats, and TS Eliot’s The Wasteland (1922), Joyce’s Ulysses (1922). And if Tolkien tried to express himself through new languages, so did Hugh MacDiarmid, and the impenetrable Finnegans Wake (1939).

    Tolkien wished to give England back a mythology. The Germanic influences are obvious, whether Beowulf, or Wagner’s Ring cycle, or the Edda etc, but they are not the only ones. For one, Tolkien was highly taken with the Finnish epic, the Kalevala, and for another, Tolkien looked towards Scotland, Wales and Ireland for inspiration. When trying to write his Númenor cycle, for example, Tolkien noted that he wanted one of the pieces to be “a Tuath-de-Danaan story or Tir-nan-Og”…

    One of the biggest influences on Tolkien was CS Lewis, who was originally from Belfast. Like Tolkien, he was highly religious, but it is said that he refrained from converting to Catholicism, to avoid upsetting his Ulster Protestant relatives…

    Both Tolkien and Lewis were in turned influenced by the Rev. George MacDonald (1824-1905), author of Phantastes (1858) and Lilith (1895), commonly considered to be the first true modern fantasy novels…

    Some of Tolkien’s names are evidently Germanic, e.g. Samwise, Ilúvatar (i.e. “All-Father”) and Baggins. But of course, Other sources come into play […] “Sauron” and “Saruman” suggest the Greek sauros meaning a lizard, by extension the dragon (Satan); “Mordor” suggests the necromantic Witch of Endor (1 Samuel 28), death (mort) and “murder”…

    Tolkien’s Elves are not the small, pestilential creatures of English folklore, they are the human sized beings of Celtic myth. Despite being slightly effete and arty, they are extremely formidable. They seem to come out of a coalescence of Finnish, and Welsh influences, together with Tolkien’s Romantic leanings. And in the end, they disappear off to the west to what could be Hy Breasail, Tir nan Og or Avalon…

    …Hobbits are actually quaint English peasants, with names like “Baggins” and “Took”, and live in “the Shire”. It’s said that Tolkien based them on the out-of-place country folk that he had encountered in the Trenches. Their innocence and honesty contrasted with the horror and enormity of their situation, and that’s perhaps what we see throughout the LOTR…

    #263693
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Good stuff.

    I have cited Tolkien as one of the great prophets of our time…

    And I say that in church too…well I use to.

    Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

    #263694
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Love Tolkien…even went through the simarillion (well listened to it). It is the Old testament to the lord of the rings and quite fascinating…adds even more depth and when followed up by a reading of the lord of the rings leave you quite sad that you are saying goodbye to your old friends when you finish.

    #263695
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I read LOTR and the Hobbit back in the mid eighties, and it’s amazing how it stays with you. Have read the Silmarillion too, but the Lost Tales etc aren’t that familiar to me.

    I was always fascinated by Norse mythology. Unfortunately it has been hijacked by the far right.

    What is the ring? No one really knows. Someone suggested it was the H-bomb. Tolkien denied this. I think it represents greed and lust for power. Gollum’s the classic example of the “Peter Principle” perhaps – he ends up with this object of amazing power, doesn’t know quite what to do with it, and is corrupted by it. He’s a weak person, and once he falls off the pedestal does everything he can to get back on it. However, even he gets redeemed.

    He’s much more subtle with his Christianity than CS Lewis is in the Narnia books. One of the more obvious Christian metaphors is where Gandalf falls into the Abyss with the Balrog, and then you’ve got Sauron (sauros = lizard = dragon = devil)

    Heavenly Father – Iluvatar maybe… is harder to perceive in the work.

    #263696
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Love Tolkien.

    Amazing writer and philosopher. I have no problem accepting him as a prophet, in the Bible Dictionary sense of the word.

    #263697
    Anonymous
    Guest

    My sister assisted in the editing of a book on Tolkien and religion. I’ll have to find out when it was published and the title.

    Tolkien is one of those authors that I feel like I should like more than I do. Charles Dickens is another.

    I just can’t concentrate reading long sections of people walking around or battles, so LoTR just doesn’t engage me.

    #263698
    Anonymous
    Guest

    It may be an urban myth, but I heard once that Tolkein and Lewis challenged each other to write a allegorical novel about the atonement. Lion, W, W and LOTR were their outputs of the challenge. Tolkein, on reading LWW apparently said to Lewis something like ‘that’s not a christian allegory, that’s christian propaganda.’

    I can’t find a reference for that story anywhere though, so it might have been made up by the person I was talking with.

    I loved both as a kid and still do.

    #263699
    Anonymous
    Guest

    i was thinking about the value of the tolkien myths as scripture. i think it works quite well in teaching values needed in this world.

    #263700
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Tolkien and C.S. Lewis were well acquainted with each other. I have also heard that Tolkien thought that the Chronicles of Narnia were not subtle enough in talking about Christianity.

    #263701
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I’m currently reading the History of Middle Earth. There are so many things I could say about spiritual themes in Tolkien, and I may be able to in a couple of days. In the meantime, here is a great link from BCC:

    http://bycommonconsent.com/2013/02/04/tolkien-cosmogony/

    #263702
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I suppose the trouble is that the message might be lost in the trappings… there are good examples of redemption, personal corruption, bravery and cowardice in Tolkien, but people might miss these very real traits amongst the magic, dragons and exotic names. I’ve met Frodo, Bilbo, Saruman, and Gollum – they’re all real types, even if their form is fantastic.

    #263703
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I don’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade with this. I love LOTR like many, many guys do. I read them the first time in middle school, then again in my 20s. I really enjoyed the movies, too, although I can’t believe they’re breaking The Hobbit up into three (three, really!?!?!) films.

    With that bona fides intro … I don’t find LOTR to be terribly spiritual. The themes represented in the books, IMO, are much more universal than they are unique to Christianity or even spirituality. Good versus evil, the attribute of perseverence, Gandalf’s fall into the abyss and subsequent re-birth as a more powerful being — these aren’t unique to Christianity, it doesn’t seem. I’d say LOTR is definitely a morality tale — but so are the King Arthur legends, Beowulf, the Iliad of Homer and many others.

    Now, I am a big believer in literature as a mirror — the reader often sees in the work their own morals and beliefs reflected back. So in that sense, if someone says they find LOTR to be a deeply religious text, I won’t quibble with them about it. If they say it is, then it is for them. For me, LOTR is simply the best fantasy series I’ve read — and that’s a great thing in and of itself.

    #263704
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I suppose I partly started this thread because Tolkien was mentioned frequently, but also because his Christian fiction is more subtle and complex than CS Lewis’. By a nice turn, I’d also written an article on him recently.

    I can’t believe they’re making three films out of the Hobbit either.

    Unlike science fiction, the larger body of fantasy is highly derivative and has been riffing off him ever since (Eragon anyone?), often written by people of lower intelligence, in over long series (Part sixteen of the Thinggumgigiad). Fantasy before Tolkien as ironically more diverse.

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