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So what do you say to someone who visits our church and says that our meetings have no life, no spirit in them. Most people are not paying attention, or bored. Parents struggle with children or are playing with them to keep them entertained and quiet. Many others are foucsed on lessons they have to give later…yes, there are a few who are soaking up the words of whoever happens to be speaking, but you look around our meetings and most are not engaged. Then a hymn comes along. Yes, the hymns are beautiful, but once again, you look around and the congregation is never engaged…some are just muttering through the words….anyways, this was the observation of someone struggling with our faith. He then goes to another church and comments that there is life there…everyone is listening…you look around and everyone is engaged, everyone is feeling the music and so on. He says that you can feel the spirit there, that people talk of Christ and rejoice of Christ… We talk of home teaching, tithing, family home evening and just about anything and everyting except Christ. He called our meetings devoid of any spirit, but rather just a bunch of members enduring what they know they are supposed to do. He sees people going through the motions without really being touched. As I look around our ward with different eyes, I can totally see what he is saying. While I cannot speak to what other churches are like, I can easily see how someone visiting our church might find sacrament meeting boring, devoid of spirit, and not mentioning Christ much (unless we happen to have a really good speaker, but how often does that happen). He said that the missionaries told him that the spirit would tell him of the truth, and coming to our church, he feels no spirit. What do you say to that?
As a lds member who has attended evangelical services I see your point. Our meetings are very placid. Having attended both enough to come to my own conclusions – I think both sides could take some pointers from the other to improve their worship services. It will be hard for you to have a good answer for it. Other religions have full time paid ministers, pastors, rabbi’s, etc. This allows them the ability to have those motivational, enthusiastic addresses we all yearn for. Life is long, lonely, and uninspiring at times. An enthusiastic address can do wonders. And music. For me I find the evangelical music routine and mundane. At least in our area, they seem to have 5 tunes and rotate different words through them. The plus though is that enthusiasm, whether they have a choir or congregation hymn, it’s more like a rock concert. The words are shot up onto a video screen with religious imagery behind it. The music is accompanied by a live band. People can sit and sing, or stand with arms held high in prayer, they could hug others and sway back and forth. It really creates a mood. Which then creates the learning challenge.
We are told we will feel the spirit. I have learned that it takes a long time to know the difference between your emotions being touched and the spirit reaching you. Sometimes they are so close it’s tough. No one can teach someone else what that difference feels like because it is as unique as your taste buds.
Your best bet would be to tell your friend or yourself you understand and hope that someday you might have a chance to influence how your sacrament meeting will go. Good luck.
I would agree that it often is an issue, but I also would point out that I believe there is a difference between “spiritualism” and “emotionalism” – and that what often “looks” spiritual actually is nothing more than emotional. Obviously, that has implications for LDS services and members and not just others, but I have less of a problem with our meetings being sedate than some other people because I’ve seen the opposite and don’t like it. If you want to read what I’ve written about this exact issue (from both sides of the analytical divide), read the following posts on my personal blog:
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Spirituality or Emotionalism: Manipulation or Manifestation” ( http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2012/09/spirituality-vs-emotionalism.html “
Seeing the Beauty in Other Religions and Denominations” ( http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2011/08/seeing-beauty-in-other-religions-and.html Used to love Pentecostal services, corny music but really felt the spirit. Chaotic though and these churches burn out rapidly. I don’t think children should be forced to sit right thru sacrament. Quakers don’t do that.
How you feel in church often relates to the ratio between wanting to be there and having to be there. Our sacrament meetings will always be a luck of the draw sort of thing given the reasons meantioned above, lay speakers, leaders, non professional music, etc. so it’s not realistic to expect to be transported each and every Sunday. I do think it’s a bit risky to generalize about how church is or isn’t in the spirituality department. My choice when I feel the need for a bit more is to go to a rite I episcopal service at a local parish I support. It is what is is. Bigger wards are better – more choice of speakers. Episcopal services have wonderful hymns and wooly sermons in my experience.
For myself I have ceased expecting church meetings to feed my spirituality. When they do – I count it as a bonus. No I am not a saint. I sat through this past weeks Sacrament meeting in cringe mode. Mid way through I forced myself to make my Sacrament meeting the best for me. I grabbed a note pad, my scriptures and I started feeding my spirit. I read Matthew 5 then moved to Psalms. I slowly let the beautiful words soak in. I let the holy ghost remind me to look around the ward and see who wasn’t there and make a mental list to check in with them. Not to get them to come back, but just to let them know someone remembered. I’m behind on finishing the list. But I made good progress. It’s taken many years for me to understand the difference between religiousosity and spirituality. At this season I believe the religion of my birth needs my spirituality – more than I need something from it. That may change. I know people who needed the services and connections that being LDS provide. That is one of the positive things our demanding faith does provide. Right now though, I work to create a spirit in every day of my life and carry it into the chapel of religious birth.
I also readily acknowledge the fresh learning in a different environment can create a happy catalyst to my spirit.
mom3 wrote:For myself I have ceased expecting church meetings to feed my spirituality.
But isn’t that the point of going to Church in the first place? Don’t we go to church to be spiritually fed? Our time is so precious. Why waste our worship time in something that is not feeding our soul? I pulled my son out of Sunday School last week and we went to some nearby woods and just talked about Church, about God, about spirituality….I listened to what mattered to him and how he felt. It was time far better spent than Sunday School which he has become very frustrated with. You mentioned reading Psalms and Matthew. That is something that can be done without going to church (and probably in places with far less distractions). What is it that attendance at church is actually providing spiritually? Yes, every once in a couple of blue moons there is something wonderful that happens there…but Church today is more about routine and doing your sunday duties than really connecting with our Father in Heaven. I try…but the lessons are bland covering things that have been covered ad nauseum for my whole life with the same pat answers and feelings that one has said something profound with the providing of the canned answers…I feel the spirit more and feel more like I am worshipping in my own personal study than I ever do at Church.
I agree that one cannot generalize about meetings. Some wards are better than others…some days are better than others….but as my friend pointed out…everyone was engaged at this other place….at our church, it often seems like we are just going through the motions of worship, checking off our list one more thing that got done and one less thing to feel guilty about.
Galileo- You and my husband are of the same mind set. To an extent I find myself there also. The majesty of nature, the quiet whisperings of our inner souls is transcendent. When I was 17 the church changed to the present block system. I was attending institute at the time and the change in how we practiced our religion was a hot topic. At one point our teacher, who personally worked for GAs (who are probably all dead now), said that in the future LDS families would worship in their homes. He gave us a lot of detail support for it – financial, travel, etc. I was elated. Even then, long before “the middle way movement” I found mountains of reason to have a more personal religious experience.
Many years later – We are no closer to my dream method. But I have learned something both during my Traditional Practicing Years and my Independent Believer Status – I am nourished by my attendance. This is me – and I don’t hold it for everyone. Maybe it’s because I cut my spiritual teeth on LDS worship, maybe it’s because there are familiarities- that stand out like Christmas Trees at Christmas. I can’t say for sure.
What I can say, is that I use the worship tradition to improve my Christianity. When I sit in church and really observe and listen to others – I learn things about them I didn’t learn before. I learn their hurts, their personal aches, I get the chance to practice Christ work. I often attend solo these days. The years of family attendance have passed. I am not alone though I know of so many people who struggle with the church, yet want to be there, too. I ponder on them. I imagine them sitting with me. Us holding hands, partaking of ordinances together in love, and feeling our burdens lightened. After sacrament meeting I look for ways to lift, bless or just acknowledge the worth of other souls.
I’ve attended other faiths, they have their communities. There are glorious pieces to them. When I am with them I love to blessed and fulfilled by them. I do find for me though, that my mormonism doesn’t wash off. My god is different then their god. My Adam and Eve are different and more inspiring to me than theirs. My atonement or Grace is more personal. I won’t know which one is fully accurate for a while, because tradition is hard to abandon, but I attend because my faith offers me interpersonal action in a way I can’t find anywhere else.
Here are some possible ways to fix SM: – make it 50-55 minutes… anything else is probably too short, but 70 minutes… well, I rarely look at the clock 50 minutes into a meeting and think, “good… time for another talk about a general conference talk”.
– one youth speaker and one adult speaker.
– place the Sacrament at the end of the meeting, with all talks leading up to it. We should speak of the wonderful things of life, the gospel, the atonement, and then partake of the symbols of the bread of life and living water.
– have the congregation stand for all hymns…
– put an electronic governor on the organ that keeps it from crossing a slow-tempo threshold.
– teach people how to speak in church… no reading talks… no General Authority voices… no long, pointless personal stories about how you met… no quote from “Webster’s Dictionary” or “Mormon Doctrine”… do include personal insights, experiences, stories that have helped the speaker to understand or implement what they are talking about…
– publish a list of 1000 topics that are acceptable so bishoprics don’t use general conference talks as their catalog for assignment of topics.
– have bishoprics give people a few topics to choose from, rather than assigning an arbitrary topic. Doing so will contribute to people feeling connected to what they are talking about.
– replace the sacrament hymn with a “special musical number”. While there are some beautiful sacrament hymns, their slow pace, and heavy tone lends to a somber, rather than reverent feeling… the same hymns performed by the ward choir, a string quartet, or the primary children, would be more joyful… Special musical numbers are the most peaceful and reflective parts of our current meetings, so why do they have to be only occasional inserts?
No leafing about in scriptures nor Bible Dictionary either. seriously I go to meet people too. Communion is a good word… we commune with each other.
In defense of Sacrament Mtg, I have to say that whether the music is good (which it is often not), and whether the talks are well written and inspiring (which I find rare in any ward), I always feel the Spirit more strongly during Sacrament Mtg than any other time/place outside the temple. A spirit separate from sentimentality. That has to say something… I am unhappy with the current trend of rehashing conference talks. I listened to conference already! I can read it anytime I want. Here, here for the 1000 topic idea.
I mentioned to a colleague of mine that one of my pet peeves in church is the sheer number of people needing electronic devices just to get through the meeting. She was shocked. I probably should have kept it to myself, but it is really discouraging to me. Why don’t they just stay home? (I know there is probably social pressure…)
The sacrament is really the most important thing we do every Sunday, and I think meetings can be improved. I have faith they will be.
TT remember some people look up scriptures on them as well as games! I know… 😳 turinturambar wrote:
I mentioned to a colleague of mine that one of my pet peeves in church is the sheer number of people needing electronic devices just to get through the meeting. She was shocked. I probably should have kept it to myself, but it is really discouraging to me. Why don’t they just stay home? (I know there is probably social pressure…).
Social pressure
Family pressure
Not wanting to become ward project
Have other calling that “forces” attendance.
If I was single I wouldn’t go more than 3x a year. As is, I attend more than that and sometimes I require a bit of digital distraction to make it through, yes.
If I was Prophet for a day, I’d make Sacrament meeting a 20 minute service just for the sacrament and then split for two 50 minute blocks for classes.
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