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An interesting thing happened at YMs last night (I’m YMs Pres): During a game one of the priests called another (his closest friend) ‘Gay’. Given the fact that it was silly, ignorant and not intentionally insulting, I chose to ignore it. One of my counsellors intervened and said “You shouldn’t call people Gay, xxxxxxx, as we don’t believe in it”. I was pretty shocked an immediately corrected him saying that “It’s perfectly acceptable for someone gay to be a member of the church”. The priest disagreed with me and only backed down when a Missionary backed me up.
I left from this incident feeling that I should be much more proactive in stopping use of this as a slang term. I was also pretty shocked that the status of homosexuality and the church is so massively misunderstood by both a priest and my counsellor who has been a member for probably 15-20 years. I was glad the missionaries were there to back me up, especially since we had an investigator and a less active member there too (hence the missionaries had been invited).
It might not be a bad thing that you weren’t too confrontational, especially with a YM. I’ve found that this age group really don’t want to look wrong in front of their peers. Perhaps you can find a talk or another resource and privately share it with the youth who didn’t know the doctrine. That way he gets the truth but saves face at the same time… alltruth wrote:It might not be a bad thing that you weren’t too confrontational, especially with a YM. I’ve found that this age group really don’t want to look wrong in front of their peers. Perhaps you can find a talk or another resource and privately share it with the youth who didn’t know the doctrine. That way he gets the truth but saves face at the same time…
That’s a great idea, thanks.
I’m definitely not one for being confrontational with the YM. Loving them is ym most important duty.
In cases like this, especially, it is important to correct false doctrine – and the earlier the better. Obviously, it has to be done gently and thoughtfully, but it needs to happen. Direct them to the Church’s new website specifically about homosexuality:
“
Love One Another: A Discussion about Same-Sex Attraction” ( http://www.mormonsandgays.org/ )It gets used all the time. The most funny use of it was on the Simpsons, “Urgh, Bart kissed a girl, that is sooo gay!” “Spastic” and “Mongo” get used as insults too.
Kristmace, Thank you. As a gay member of the church, I myself am grateful you were willing to do this. Every little bit helps.
Quote:I was also pretty shocked that the status of homosexuality and the church is so massively misunderstood by both a priest and my counsellor who has been a member for probably 15-20 years.
This is actually one of my biggest frustrations. E Oaks wrote an Ensign article about it in 1995, E Holland in 2007, the Church released “God Loveth His Children” in 2007, the 2010 CHI clarified some issues, and mormonsandgays.org was most recently released. And people still don’t know what the Church’s stance is. My constant prayer every year at Conference time is that one of the Q15 will finally have a substantial discussion about it over the pulpit at GC. But they won’t do it. So many people only believe what is said in conference. They could begin to fix this if they wanted to (maybe I’m naive…). Every year that goes by that the Brethren won’t talk about it in GC is a year full of hurt and tragedy for LGBT mormons. They’re prophets for heaven’s sake! If a prophet isn’t able to take a few arrows in defense of the truth, nobody will!
Thoughts?
turinturambar wrote:Kristmace,
Thank you. As a gay member of the church, I myself am grateful you were willing to do this. Every little bit helps.
Quote:I was also pretty shocked that the status of homosexuality and the church is so massively misunderstood by both a priest and my counsellor who has been a member for probably 15-20 years.
This is actually one of my biggest frustrations. E Oaks wrote an Ensign article about it in 1995, E Holland in 2007, the Church released “God Loveth His Children” in 2007, the 2010 CHI clarified some issues, and mormonsandgays.org was most recently released. And people still don’t know what the Church’s stance is. My constant prayer every year at Conference time is that one of the Q15 will finally have a substantial discussion about it over the pulpit at GC. But they won’t do it. So many people only believe what is said in conference. They could begin to fix this if they wanted to (maybe I’m naive…). Every year that goes by that the Brethren won’t talk about it in GC is a year full of hurt and tragedy for LGBT mormons. They’re prophets for heaven’s sake! If a prophet isn’t able to take a few arrows in defense of the truth, nobody will!
Thoughts?
I was pleased to see the mormonsandgays.com website got ‘front and centre’ of lds.org for a few days. But I agree that for most people it will have passed them by. I now have some of the key quotes stored on my phone for opportune moments in church.
I would dearly love for one of the two apostles featured on there to talk about it in the same clear terms in conference. It needs to be made more overt.
I wanted it to be known so i found a way to slip it into my Elders Quorum lesson. After JohnD you would think the church handbook would forbid calling people named john to teaching positions….I was perfectly happy as ward membership clerk and I was able to spread my warped philosophies :wtf: Thanks turinturambar. I’d be interested to know in your opinion as a gay man if you think I should stamp down on any usage of the term ‘gay’ in that slang context? I’m always wary of creating confrontation, especially with the YM I preside over, butI certainly wouldn’t let the term be used freely.
I will say that youth in general throw insults around without much thought. I have heard them use gay as an insult yet turn around and be ready to fight to defend the rights of homosexuals to marry. I have a lot of teenagers run through my house and my son tells me his generation is not so thin skinned. it is ok to make fun of everyone….that is the ultimate equality. I can’t help but agree but wonder in thought but have doubts about it in practice.
Though I still get in trouble from my wife when I say “Ha! You throw like a girl!”
kristmace, I can’t speak for all gay people, just myself. I think “trash talk” is a normal part of being an adolescent boy. My first time rollerblading, I was told by a friend that I “looked like a handicapped person skating.” Nevertheless, I know he would go out of his way to be kind and helpful to a handicapped person.
It seems the best way to proceed differs from kid to kid…some kids are mean and need to be called on it immediately…others you can talk to later, pointing out the potential harm in the comment, and the kid usually understands and is more careful in the future. I’d like to see the term destigmatized. When I taught junior high, we teachers often talked about how to handle this kind of thing, and it was agreed that we should immediately address it with our students. I think most kids are good and understand, and are passionate about fighting for better treatment of others.
So, it really depends on the context. “Trash talk” is usually affectionate, and does not equal hate speech (“hate speech” is too strong a term, but I can’t think of another at the moment). However, it may be that a young gay man there heard it and added it to his pile of reasons why he thinks he’ll never be able to stay in the church. I’m glad you did what you did. Thanks for the response. You’re right, there is a huge difference between trash talk and hate speech. What I feel it comes down to is a lack of maturity and empathy for others. I’m sure when they look back in 10 years time they’ll regret it and think differently, especially when someone they know comes out.
It’s worth pointing out gay has changed its meaning at least three times in the past century. When I was younger, older folk used to complain homosexuals had hijacked the word. Now it seems to be changing again, and some of the time people using it in the new way don’t even think of the homosexual meaning, let alone the original meaning of bright and happy. Didn’t the Flintstones theme song mention them having “a gay old time”? Language can’t be controlled unfortunately. Sometimes telling someone off makes them say it more.
My children know not to describe things they think are silly or disgusting by saying those things are “gay” around me – just as they know not to use “retarded” in that way. It’s no the word itself that is the central issue for me; it’s the principle of not defaming and slurring an entire group of people in such a way.
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