Specific Issues that caused the divide

We’ve talked about my theme — Expectations are out of line with “reality.” This can be a very difficult thing to modify in LDS culture.

My crisis of course included all the standard issues but the “killer” element was I simply saw way too much “humanness” and not enough unquestionable divine guidance. It could have been different if I had been taught from the beginning to see a mix of mortal impetus in church direction mixed in with divine inspiration, but my pioneer roots emphasized “your leaders are inspired” and “you will be blessed for your obedience” to the degree that I was unprepared to see as much fallibility as there is.

Science vs stated doctrine

Gay marriage

Political coercion of members

Racism

Sexism

Unhealthy attitude towards sexuality

Temple ceremony

Word of Wisdom inconsistencies

Some of these are unique to the LDS church and some are not.

Obviously I do not want to address them here nor do I want to explain why something is troubling or what the fixes are. But I want to address on the podcast the main issues that make it difficult to completely reconcile with the church…I just want the issues named…please no explanations of why it is problematic, nor explaining solutions – just a one or two word statement of the issue.

Sorry I can’t do 2-word explanations in most cases but here is the best summary I could come up with:

1. Attempts to deny evolution by Bruce R. McConkie, Joseph Fielding Smith, etc.

2. Official claim that Adam was literally the first man

3. No death before the fall idea in the BoM (2 Nephi 2:22-23)

4. LDS scriptures appear to support literal global flood interpretation (Moses 8, Ether 13:2).

5. LDS scriptures appear to support literal tower of Babel story (Ether 1:33)

6. LDS scriptures appear to support 6 thousand year old earth (D&C 77:6-7,10)

7. Institute manual defends alleged genocide by Moses

8. Racial priesthood ban + prophets will never lead the Church astray

9. Polygamy + prophets will never lead the Church astray

10. Book of Abraham translation discrepancies

11. Joseph Smith’s comments about Moon Quakers

12. Joseph Smith married women still married to other men

13. Joseph Smith was convicted of “money digging”

14. Zelph

15. The Kirtland bank failure

16. The Kinderhook plates

17. The Greek Psalter incident

18. Nancy Rigdon

19. Fanny Alger

20. Account of Joseph Smith bragging about being a “profitable prophet” better than Mohammed

21. John C. Bennett was Assistant President of the Church

22. Joseph Smith and other Church leaders drank wine the night he was killed

23. Brigham Young: “Adam is God”

24. Brigham Young: “Death on the spot”

25. Blood atonement

26. The Mountain Meadows Massacre and aftermath

24. Similarity between temple ordinances and Masonic rites

25. Brigham Young used chewing tobacco

26. Joseph Fielding Smith’s claim that men would never go to the Moon

27. Claim that sexual sins are next to murder

28. Spencer W. Kimball’s claim that masturbation leads to homosexuality

29. Church leaders duped by Mark Hoffman regarding the Salamander Letter

30. Gordon B. Hinckley interviews make revelation sound the same as average members praying

31. Gordon B. Hinckley: “don’t worry about those little flecks of history”

32. Fourteen fundamentals reiterated by 2 different speakers in recent conference

33. Cult-like warning sign: Extremely zealous and unquestioning commitment to leaders

34. Cult-like warning sign: Strong emphasis on us-versus-them mentality and special status of the group

35. Cult-like warning sign: Strong use of peer pressure, guilt, and shame to control behavior

36. Church’s direct involvement in Prop. 8

37. Tithing amount is excessive and doesn’t add up fairly in different situations

38. Magical thinking about supposed connection between strict obedience and guaranteed blessings

39. It looks like Native Americans principal ancestors came to America from Asia through the Bering Strait over 10,000 years ago rather than from Jerusalem about 600 BC

40. Steel, horses, massive battles and civilizations, etc. in BoM don’t match archaeological evidence you would expect to find in this case very well.

41. The current WoW interpretation looks like the revelation that never really happened

I could probably shrug off any handful of these issues but it was all of them together plus more that made it feel impossible for me to resovle my doubts anymore. Basically I can summarize most of my issues with the Church as simply that it looks to me like Church leaders have repeatedly shown that they didn’t really know what they were talking about in hindsight but at the same time I’m not allowed to openly question or criticize what they say.

The only true and living church.

14 fundalmentals of the prophet.

Two lines of communication.

“Wolves in Sheep clothing.”…the way leaders treat those who doubt.

Financial transparency.

Pharasicial practices like white shirts.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

Wow, DA! Do you have that list on your fridge for easy access?

I would but I don’t want my wife to accuse me of being an anti-Mormon. I honestly don’t hate the Church I just don’t trust the leaders, scriptures, lessons, etc. very much anymore (for good reason as far as I’m concerned).

When I first had my faith crisis, I’d say:

– Nauvoo-era polygamy (especially how the slanderous lies in the Nauvoo Expositor seemed to be pretty accurate)

– Book of Abraham

– Kinderhook Plates

– lack of Christ-centered worship

– just an overwhelming, nagging feeling, that if God wanted to give all his children a “way back” to him, that he probably wouldn’t convey it in a manner that requires suspension of so much common sense and moral conscience.

Now-a-days, I’d also add:

– draconian tithing stance (pay it even if you can’t afford it, pay 10% of gross).

– Prop 8

– Book of Mormon as literal

– Utah-era polygamy

– Subjugation of women (which I can precisely define, in my mind, as the intertwining of priesthood and hierarchy… you have to have the priesthood to do most anything in the church, not just the performing of ordinances).

– 14 Fundamentals

Not trying to explain or give the answers I can’t help but make the observation that so many items on DA’s list can be categorized and addressed under broader terms. For example one major problem is expecting a near constant direct line of revelation to church leaders. I won’t deny that this idea is heavily embedded in LDS culture, but I would point to this as the problem to address instead of trying to explain every false statement made by a church leader.

I see the scriptural “problems” in the same vein, namely that the human element involved in recording revelation makes all writing subject to error. The problem certainly compounds on itself when multiple statements are made that collectively lead members down this path of false expectations.

My addition to the list:

“The church” has no need of repentance it seems. That illusion is a big problem.