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I haven’t posted any topics in a while, so I figured I would give this a shot. I am asking for any advice on how to overcome addictions. From my intro to this site, I’ve mentioned I’m a recovering sex addict to porn and masturbation. I can’t go to the church’s addiction recovery meetings because they’re 30 minutes away from my hometown, nobody in my hometown goes to the meetings, and gas is too expensive to do that on a weekly basis. I talk to the bishop from time to time about it and I see a counselor (non-LDS) as well. Although most of the counseling deals with my mental disorders, not the addiction. And I’ve discovered from my spiritual progression and healing from the addiction that “true repentance”, meaning I completely abstain from these acts, just isn’t possible for me. Progression and healing throughout my life are. I’ve been in recovery since I was twenty before I left for my mission. Maybe I’m not humble enough, have enough faith, or try hard enough as many might claim, but I don’t think so. Even for as much as I’ve got counseling and have been put on meds to help me deal with mental disorders, being cured of them in this life hasn’t happened. Only spiritual progression and healing over time have happened. Again, I’m not asking for advice to be heal. I just want to know. Do you think it’s possible for everyone to be completely cured of an addiction, like being cured of cancer, or do you think it’s like having same-sex attraction, it’s only possible for some people to be completely cured in the next life? Tell me what you think.
My short answer is four-fold: 1) I can’t know with certainty for any person regrading any issue. Neither can that person, in lots of cases.
2) Paul said that there are “thorns of the flesh” that last throughout life. I think everyone has at least something that fits this description, whether they recognize it or not.
3) Recognized, diagnosed mental issues complicate everything.
4) I personally don’t view “normal” sexuality as something from people need to “recover” or “be cured”. I simply see it as part of mortality. Thus, I don’t group homosexuality in the same category as sexual addictions – any more than I would do that with heterosexuality. Sex certainly can be and often is “addictive”, in the purest sense of the word, but it’s no more so, generally speaking, for anyone based solely or primarily on the person / people to whom they are attracted.
Lastly, God bless you as you continue to try to figure this out. Sometimes, moderation is better than the self-condemnation that accompanies unrealistic expectations. I hope you find an answer and/or balance that brings you peace.
You can recover to the point where it doesn’t bother you. Have you read the church’s twelve point book? It’s very good. I am not so sure sex is an addiction. I think it is more like biology. It’s like saying I am addicted to breathing. I think sex is just such a powerful biological response it is not accurate to call it an addiction. I agree, generally, Cadence – except in some cases where it is an actual addiction. Cadence wrote:I am not so sure sex is an addiction. I think it is more like biology. It’s like saying I am addicted to breathing. I think sex is just such a powerful biological response it is not accurate to call it an addiction.
If it relates to fetishes or unusual behavior it can do. Remember adrenalin and endorphins are addictive.
I wouldn’t equate it with breathing though, I think it comes after several other natural priorities.
Not all people who look at P are addicted but some certainly are.
I do believe that addiction recovery is possible in this life. I have struggled with addiction to drugs and alcohol in the past, I am able to stay sober by daily dedication and by working a program.
Personally, I am very concerned by your post. I feel like the church guilts people and makes them think they have a problem. Just because a man likes to look at porn, that doesn’t mean be is an addict IMHO. The solution to my substance abuse problem is to abstain from addictive substances. But how can you abstain from having sexual urges the rest of your life? The church seems to set people up into an endless impossible cycle of guilt, shame and seeking repentance from men at church. It is my personal opinion that many at church have an unhealthy view of sex in general.
If you really think you have a problem, please see a trained medical professional. I’m not sure that most Bishops have the proper training to make a diagnosis regarding mental health and addiction.
AngryMormon: I’ve had a high libido since I was twelve. I’m 35 now. It started out as just as a habit. It just got progressively worse as I got older. I got caught looking at and watching porn If you want to pm me, go ahead. I will talk to you about it more in detail there. It’s a long story. I do see a mental health professional that deals with sexual issues. She calls what I have sexual compulsions. The meds I take that are provided from the mental health facility that my psychiatrist is a part of also helps with me deal with my sexual cravings. In fact, I’m much better than what I was in my teens and twenties. Ray: Thanks. I really do agree with you. I’m realizing more and more now as I pray about this that moderation is the key and that’s helping me find peace. I just wish more church leaders would talk about recovery from sex addiction in this way. Too often in the Ensign, church websites, and other church magazines they refer to addicts that have recovered versus still in recovery.
Again, I’m doing much better than what I was before. I just hope when I finally am dating somebody that she will accept me at the level I’m at and not expect me to be fully recovered.
In general, we don’t handle addictions very well in the Church, since “true repentance” (“true” as in “pointed in the right direction, like “true north”) and “complete repentance” (“complete” as in “finished”) are two very different things. True repentance is a condition of the heart and spirit – a deep desire to be the best “me” possible and faith (hope in the unseen) that I can continue to grow and be better over time, with an acceptance of grace that makes up the difference between what I want to be and what I am and might always be in this life. Complete repentance is a condition of the body, where we have stopped doing certain things that keep us from being who we want to be. True repentance can exist “fully” even when complete repentance is not possible – and, I would argue, complete repentance (in terms of Mormon theology) doesn’t occur until we are perfected as gods. True repentance allows for thorns of the flesh to continue to exist without guilt and punishment (termed as transgressions in our theology, not as sins).
We teach complete repentance in most cases where we should be teaching true repentance.
That’s interesting, Ray. I’ve never thought about true repentance and complete repentance as being two different things. I agree the church doesn’t handle addictions very well. Just like the way it handles mental disorders. Thanks, Ray. I feel pretty good. True repentance is probably all I need. I agree with the true repentance/complete repentance distinction as well. I’ll admit I spent some quality alone time on my mission and even now that I’m married it happens. Rather than being mad at me for it I think my wife finds it….intriguing? I don’t know what word to use on this forum and stay kosher…
It was difficult on my mission because I had companions (read: just about all of them) who were obviously doing the same thing and it was killing them inside. I had felt like that before but I just decided to not feel guilty one day early on in my mission. It was extremely liberating. I never felt/feel like it takes away the spirit either.
The day I made the change was when I read the following story in a book about zen something or other. I don’t remember which:
Quote:Two monks were on a pilgrimage. One day, they came to a deep river. At the edge of the river, a young woman sat weeping, because she was afraid to cross the river without help. She begged the two monks to help her. The younger monk turned his back. The members of their order were forbidden to touch a woman.
But the older monk picked up the woman without a word and carried her across the river. He put her down on the far side and continued his journey. The younger monk came after him, scolding him and berating him for breaking his vows. He went on this way for a long time.
Finally, at the end of the day the older monk turned to the younger one. “I only carried her across the river. You have been carrying her all day.”
This story has applied to me in many ways….besides being a metaphor for my relationship with my companions for most of my mission…
Often we do things that violate our “rules”. Whether is church rules, family rules, personal rules, whatever… We have a choice. We can accept it and try and move on, or we can let the thoughts/guilt/worrying consume the rest of our journey. In my mind, when these or any other thing become a problem is when they intrude on the rest of the journey. If we happen to carry a woman across a river, I think we need to let her go on the other side and continue on.
If the church guilt is keeping you from enjoying life then I would almost argue it is a bigger hindrance than the porn/masturbation. In my struggles as a teenager it would kill me because anytime I slipped up I just felt like my life was over, i was unclean, i wasn’t worthy, i figured everyone who saw me would just know because of my countenance what I’d done. All of those things… And since those things offer a temporary relief of sorts I would just turn back to them because i felt like it was the only thing that accepted me. That was addiction. And a horrible cycle that I’m sure you understand. If anything I think the guilt from talks about not “overworking the factory” is entirely counterproductive and just feeds the cycle.
The key for me was just to let go of the guilt. When I decided that masturbation was OK. Suddenly my urge to do it lessened and lessened. If porn crept in once in a while I’d just laugh at my humanity and move on with my life.
I guess I consider myself to have recovered from the addiction even if I’m an occasional partaker in the acts. I think that’s the best I’ll ever achieve. And I’m OK with that.
I feel like the church’s attitudes towards sex and especially masturbation can take natural instincts or impulses and turn them into chronic problems. Nothing fuels curiosity like prohibition and taboo. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if the actual ‘problems’ with porn in the church have increased guilt and thus lead to an increase in problems. No science to back that up, it is just my personal thoughts. As such, the addiction may be easier to overcome by loosening up on traditional LDS views and continuing to work with a non LDS therapist.
Again, I am no expert, but it makes sense to my confused mind.
Interesting questions. I would say once an addict, always an addict. But that doesn’t the behaviour is always there.
An alcoholic is best served by saying ‘I’m an alcoholic and always will be, but I choose to not drink at all.’
Second, some people drink a lot and drink regularly, but are not alcoholic. Equally someone might not be a sex addict even though they look at lots of porn.
Addiction is about emotional dependence on a certain activity. I think people can be addicted to posting on boards or the baseball results.
Sometimes this board plays down porn as a serious and degenerative behaviour. I don’t think that’s wise. I think, that like alcohol, some can view in moderation. Maybe that’s ok (although there’s still the issue of the emotional hurt caused to the participants). But for others there will be the issue of the diminishing returns of the content’s ability to stimulate (like a drug). That’s a dangerous spiral.
A 13yo might get turned on by an underwear catalogue
By 18, the catalogue is boring, topless ‘lads mags’ replace underwear catalogue
By 25, the topless mags is boring, full nudity replace ‘lads mags’
By 30 the full nudity is boring…
… To protect the sensitivities of the readers I’ll stop this line of thinking. You get my meaning I’m sure.
I’m grateful for the ARP in the church. Even if it’s not very effective, it is an acknowledgement that faithful but addicted members need more than just ‘faith and prayers’ to help change them. I know it changed me.
It seems in all these discussions about sex no one ever states what I believe to be the obvious. If you masturbate and have what you consider a problem with porn to me it means your real problem is you do not have quality sex in your life. We evolved to have sex in a more open way, monogamy is not really the norm in our history. We are fighting evolution and biology constantly to live the Mormon ideal of healthy sex. It can really mess you up. Since we do live in a monogamous culture it is best to find a partner you are sexually comparable with and enjoy yourself as much as you like. I am confident there is little need for masturbation then. The only problem is in Mormon culture there are so many taboos about sex it is hard for some individuals especially women to ever really enjoy themselves, hence porn and masturbation is used to fulfill a need that is not being satisfied where it should be. That is my Dr.Phill impersonation for the day
I would agree, Cadence. There are too many taboos in our Mormon culture, even if husbands and wives just want to enjoy themselves sexually.
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