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Hi, I was raised in a less active family and at 12 helped to reactivate my family, we were sealed in the temple shortly after that. Now 20 something years later, and after 15 years of marriage, I’m coming to terms with the doubts I have had for many years.
A few weeks ago I spoke these doubts out loud to my sweet husband and was met with a grand defensive argument on behalf of the church, although I don’t know why I should have expected anything less. I really don’t have any intention of walking away from the church or disrupting my marriage or the life of my children. But I feel like a fraud. I found this crack in my foundation. A crack that changes so much of my belief in the church and although I know I can repair it, I don’t know how it will change the over all structure.
I know that for many polygamy is the reason people start questioning the church, but for me I had come to terms with it. What continually bothered me is that Emma was opposed to it and yet Joseph did it anyway. My understanding is that during the years the church practiced polygamy one of the hard and fast rules was the other wives needed to be okay with it. Why was Joseph different? But again, I settled on, we simply are not privy to everything. But then through my reading I came to believe that Joseph cheated on Emma with “wife #2,” Fanny Alger. I know there is dispute over this fact but that was my personal opinion. And then I began to wonder, how could he continue to be a prophet having cheated on his wife? If Pres. Monson was cheating on his wife he would most certainly be discounted as a prophet. I know he was just a man, and I believe he made many mistakes. But I don’t think you can continue to receive revelation if you are unfaithful to your wife. I think of ALL of the revelation that came during and after 1833, including eternal marriage. My heart breaks at the thought of discounting this revelation. But I’m so unsure.
Anyway, now I’m trying to figure out how to be true to myself, true to those around me, and remain an active member of the church.
I’m glad I ran into this forum and hope you will be my sounding board to save my husband some heartache.
Hi, Charity – Just want to say welcome. This site has helped me keep my balance and feel comfortable in my own skin. I like the overall commitment to staying in the church and keeping families and marriages in good condition. It’s late, but I want to welcome you and thank you for your introduction. Quote:I don’t think you can continue to receive revelation if you are unfaithful to your wife
I’m not sure whether I think this or not. In the Bible it says Moses slew an Egyptian, and afterward he received the 10 Commandments, so that’s a precedent. Truth be told, I think revelation is a pretty sketchy business, and Joseph’s inner world is a bit of a mystery. I don’t really give him the benefit of the doubt, but I don’t have a yardstick to measure him by either.
Welcome Charity! hawkgrrrl wrote:Quote:I don’t think you can continue to receive revelation if you are unfaithful to your wife
I’m not sure whether I think this or not. In the Bible it says Moses slew an Egyptian, and afterward he received the 10 Commandments, so that’s a precedent. Truth be told, I think revelation is a pretty sketchy business, and Joseph’s inner world is a bit of a mystery.
I’m not sure how sin affects your ability to receive revelation, it probably does at times. Personally I have a bigger problem with our cultural teaching that any unworthiness cuts us off completely from the spirit. To me that sounds like a pompous, self-righteous, controlling, un-charitable father figure that will not talk to a child that is not doing everything that he wants.
Hi Charity! I can sympathize with your struggle with your faith and trying to maintain your family. I haven’t figured that one out either. Today my wife told me I was just being arrogant, thinking I knew more than everybody else. Maybe she’s right. For me, the problem isn’t whether Joseph could still receive revelation after doing pretty selfish, despicable, and hurtful things, but whether God would choose to establish His church through such a man. I don’t really have any answers…
Thank you all for the warm welcome. I’m so excited I found somewhere to share thoughts and feelings where there is no judgement. Just in reading your responses, I was brought to tears with an overwhelming feeling of understanding. I didn’t think anyone would ever understand my questions. I have a father-in-law who had devoted his life to the church (teaching seminary and institute), 3 of his children have fallen away from the church and every time they come up in his home I hear how they sinned and refuse to repent so they have taken the easy road. Until 3 or 4 years ago I had agreed with him, it seemed like a reasonable conclusion knowing their history, but I know that is not my case. If anything this is the harder road and I have often thought about just closing my eyes and ignoring the questions. But that logical part of my brain won’t let me sit through a Sunday School lesson without looking for answers. Tim, I have wondered the same question about JS and fear going down that road will walk me right out of the church, so for now I avoid it.
I think God would establish a church through anyone who was a good person at heart and had the type of personality to believe God would establish a church through someone who was flawed but sincere. I think just about the only people who have any chance of establishing a church (or any organization that has the potential to change the world in some way) walk a balance beam in lots of ways – and fall off regularly. I think the main difference is whether they get up and which side of the beam they walk the most.
I think it is VERY easy to dismiss Jesus, of Nazareth, as a crackpot and a fraud, if one is so inclined. I’m NOT comparing Joseph to Jesus in any way that involves divinity by saying that, but I am comparing the two of them to Mohammed, Moses, Luther, Calvin, Confucius, Ghandi, King and others in saying it – and I am comparing them to Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Herod and any number of people who got up and walked primarily or exclusively on the other side of the line. Every one of them had something that set them outside the norm in their field of focus, and every one of them was magnetic for those who followed them. Charismatic leaders are extraordinary – for good and/or bad – sometimes clearly one, but sometimes a difficult mix of both.
I think God understands us FAR better than we understand ourselves and each other – and I think he works with people we assume naturally he wouldn’t, including, often outside our own awareness, us.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I am new here also and found comfort in the responses others have given. I have a lot of doubts about Joseph’s character but I feel like history could be twisted into anyones perspective who has an agenda…whether that is LDS scholars or anti-mormons. I don’t want to discount those issues but MY biggest hurdle are the things I see now. I have a hard time understanding why the church built a mall and funded the revitilzation of down town SLC. I don’t understand why the church operates an elite hunting perserve. I don’t understand how the church can call a missionary couple to run the hunting perserve when it is a for-profit business. I had no idea of the “corporate side” of the church. I’m right where you are Charity, this is my first time on here and I am searching for answers and peace. I read some stories about the history of the church and I’m trying to figure how I can continue going to church and how I can be at peace in my mind while raising my six children and being a good wife that doesn’t want to shake the boat with my marriage, and already have with all of this and realized it was too much to loose I will just figure it out on my own. But really when I found out all that I did about who I thought was a wonderful man Joseph Smith and all the possibilities of the scriptures being made up IT HURTS and I don’t understand why no one sees this. I just can’t let this go. And with all of this I have completely lost my purpose of life. Because I don’t know what I believe anymore. And a person tends to feel alone when their core beliefs were ripped out form underneath them. I wish you luck in your search. I hope we both find some answers. If anyone has any comments it would be much appreciated. How to cope with all of this, and what now?? Welcome to the forum. I’m afraid the fanny alger issue is one we don’t know the answer to. It be worth listening to the Brian Hales podcasts on the 12 myths of polygamy and perhaps look up his book. Some look at the same evidence and consider it a plural marriage not an affair. The jury’s still out for me. As with a lot of things. I think the way I make it work (for now) is to accept that it’s so far in the past and has such sketchy evidence that I simply don’t know.
I can’t base my decisions for life on something Joseph ‘might’ have done. This applies to both the good and the bad.
Instead I let go of it. I simply don’t know.
I do however believe there’s a God. And that’s my foundation. From there I ask myself whether mormon teachings help giving me advice for living and reasons for being. The overall picture of why we’re here is still best expressed, to me, in mormonism. So I stay, willingly.
A word for your husband. My wife’s left the church several years ago. During her initial change in attitude and faith I was terrified. I was convinced she would start going out to clubs and meet other guys. I was sure she would leave me and take the kids with her.
She didn’t. Instead she showed huge respect to me. Imposed none of her doubts and concerns on me. Now I appreciate how hard that must have been for her. But knowing how painful a faith crisis is, I don’t want to inflict that on others. My wife gave me that same gift.
There may be times when there’s some conflict between you. It will be natural for your DH to feel insecure. Focus on showing him that your relationship is strong no matter what.
Quote:history could be twisted into anyones perspective who has an agenda…whether that is LDS scholars or anti-mormons
And so it is. The best we can do in reading history is to get a glimpse of what the biases are behind what they’ve written. But Sunday School manuals will never do that because if you point out the flaws of leaders, there are many members who would take this as self-justification for their own bad behavior.
There was one lesson when I was teaching RS that I refused to teach: The Love Letters of Joseph and Emma. First of all there was no doctrinal content. Secondly, holding their marriage up as a model seemed like blatant lying! Obviously the lesson didn’t mention any of the polygamy or badgering her about it. As a funny side note, one of the letters quoted quite clearly referred to them having sex (using the euphemistic language of the day about the “comfort” she had given him the previous day). The manual was pretty oblivious to what this meant in that era, and actually had a discussion question about how we comfort our spouses!
hawkgrrrl wrote:
There was one lesson when I was teaching RS that I refused to teach: The Love Letters of Joseph and Emma. First of all there was no doctrinal content. Secondly, holding their marriage up as a model seemed like blatant lying! Obviously the lesson didn’t mention any of the polygamy or badgering her about it. As a funny side note, one of the letters quoted quite clearly referred to them having sex (using the euphemistic language of the day about the “comfort” she had given him the previous day). The manual was pretty oblivious to what this meant in that era, and actually had a discussion question about how we comfort our spouses!:sick: A little bit of sick just came up into my mouth!
Which manual is that? That’s a shocker! I’m guessing (hoping??) it’s one of the oldies?
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