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I wrote the following post on my personal blog two years ago, and a recent thread brought it to mind again. Rather than linking to the post on my blog, I am copying and pasting it here in its entirety: Quote:I feel for Laman and Lemuel, for many reasons.
I am struck by a verse that commonly is used to show their lack of faith – but I read it in a totally different way. Let me quote D&C 46:13-14 first:
Quote:“To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world. To others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life if they continue faithful.”
Now, the statement from Nephi about Laman and Lemuel in 1 Nephi 15:8-9:
Quote:“And I said unto them: Have ye inquired of the Lord? And they said unto me: We have not; for the Lord maketh no such thing known unto us.”
We tend to read this in a pejorative way – that they simply were too wicked or lazy or cavalier to ask. However, what if they were being totally honest? What if they were NOT given the gift to know and have Lehi- or Nephi-like visions – and what if they were led to believe they should be able to have such experiences? Is it any wonder they ended up rebelling and rejecting their father and brother?
I think our scriptures leave it wide open for people to not have miraculous or indescribable spiritual experiences and not be doing anything wrong, necessarily. I believe some truly do not have “such thing(s) known unto (them).” That’s where faith has to take over and abide – and I admire those who can abide and endure in faith every bit as much as I admire those who have had such things made known unto them through amazing spiritual experiences. I mean that totally and sincerely.
Beautiful Post Ray. For years I have struggled with the standard interpretations of the Laman and Lemuel story. In one way I can see it as we traditionallly teach it. In another – I can’t.
We learn about Laman and Lemuel from Nephi. No matter how good he is, it’s his opinion. I have children, they love each other, but they are also the first to see the others flaws. If they wrote each other’s biography – on a given day you wouldn’t recognize them from the description.
I also think Laman and Lemuel struggled in a way that they are given no credit for. In the middle of the night they flee with their family. No destination given, their entire lives left behind, their Jewishness left behind. I liken to a ward split or rearrangement. People don’t like them. There is sorrow and suffering in the wake as the new wards adjust. The energy changes, your friends have been taken, strangers have encroached. New leadership effects the group. (I have lived through this experience 4 times – I haven’t moved in 20 years and I’ve been in 5 wards. It’s very disconcerting.)
As they head out into the unknown – their dad starts practicing Jewish traditions of Levitical nature – and they are not Levites. They are descendants of Joseph. It would be like me blessing the sacrament. People would cringe.
Last of all – there was no end in sight for their flight. I am much calmer and receptive to new things when I sense there is a plan in mind. I panic when I don’t sense that clarity.
All of that, to me, paints a different picture of them. When I add in your thoughts (and I concur with the possibility) I wonder if we have failed to learn the lesson that Laman and Lemuel can teach us. Because as Nephi realizes, it is the descendants of these evil brothers, who fulfill the story in the end.
I love this thought as it seems more real and compassionate. Also, let’s not forget that many times Nephi sounds like a self righteous little snot. Mom3 your comments made me think of when my family moved towns 8 years ago. It meant school changes, etc. It was a lot tougher on the teens then the younger ones….also something to think about in the nephi story
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johnh wrote:I love this thought as it seems more real and compassionate. Also, let’s not forget that many times Nephi sounds like a self righteous little snot.
Agreed. To me, Nephi and Joseph son of Jacob are very similar stories. After reading their stories, is anyone too surprised at all that both Nephi’s and Joseph’s brothers hate them? I’m a big brother with an awesome little brother whom I love, but I gotta say, when he got uppity I would put him in his place.
:angel: Thanks for posting, Ray. Very interesting insight.
To add to the snotty little brother idea: What if Lehi was a traveling merchant and wasn’t home during the early years for Laman and Lemuel? What if Lehi doted on his youngest son – the son of his retirement years – the stereotypical spoiled child? What if Laman and Lemuel had a different mother than Sam and Nephi – or what if Sariah was their mother’s Israelite name and she actually was Egyptian, Laman and Lemuel were raised in Egypt, the family moved back to the Jerusalem area where Sam and Nephi were born, etc?
When you look at the few facts we actually have about the family in the account itself, there are all kinds of interesting “what if?” possibilities. Some are a little out there; others are easy to accept. I love to consider those possibilities and see which ones make sense to me, personally – and I think we tend to do WAY too little of that and “liken (the Book of Mormon people and stories) unto ourselves” in that way.
One thing I was realizing while re-reading 1 Nephi is that: Plan A (Laman and Lemuel) – “let’s talk to Laban and see if our family connections can get us the plates..”, so they actively participated in getting attempting to retrieve that plates.
Plan B (Nephi’s plan) – “let’s buy the plates”, which turned into theft of all the Lehi family riches.
I think they got mad enough at point to beat Nephi up because once Laban stole their riches from them, there was no reason to return to Jerusalem. If you were tasked with a task that was difficult and dangerous, you had been defeated 2x, and lost all your possessions, I can see why hitting something might be useful and theraputic….
AmyJ, I name you The Threadcromancer. (Please understand this as a playful jest. I’m enjoying all these corpses you dig up and breathe life into.)
You’re welcome:) Personally, I prefer to view it as I am a thread water-bearer that restores the thread to life. To my way of thinking, it is the water-bearer brings water (in this case ideas/thoughts) that restore and regrow/expand on what was already there…
[Also I am not particularly a wizard or -mancer type… In playing role-playing games such as D&D, I usually play a fighter/ranger (sometimes a girl has gotta bash/shoot something…), sorceress (why pretend to ponder over tons of books when you can do stuff because of who you innately are), or oracle/cleric (theoretical divine power… what’s not to love?). And yes, my first character was a druid…]
AmyJ wrote:Also I am not particularly a wizard or -mancer type… In playing role-playing games such as D&D, I usually play a fighter/ranger (sometimes a girl has gotta bash/shoot something…), sorceress (why pretend to ponder over tons of books when you can do stuff because of who you innately are), or oracle/cleric (theoretical divine power… what’s not to love?). And yes, my first character was a druid…
😆 :geek: 😆 I think I’d like to try playing D&D sometime as it caters to my inner nerd. But I was taught it was satanic growing up so never played and now am an adult and wouldn’t even know where to begin to find people who play. Maybe we could have a D&D EQ activity? Haha
I’m not ashamed to admit I have used family home evening to help my kids build their characters…and taught them D&D so weekends with dad after the divorce included all night nerd parties against hobgoblins and storming the Shadow Keep. Good family times. They have fond memories. “FHE” was used liberally in my home.
I wonder if that was Lehi and Sariah’s problems…they didn’t have FHE each Monday night…therefore…Laman and Lemuel were direct results of lack of teaching in the home.
:think: Thanks for conjuring up this thread again, AmyJ. +50 XP.
:thumbup: I have been thinking about it, and if there was a parenting “problem” that can be attributed to the downfall of Laman and Lemuel, I think it is that Lehi’s conversion happened when Laman and Lemuel were too old to adjust to it. Because they were older, they were more invested in setting up their lives in Jerusalem… On a quasi-relate topic – what did Lehi and his family have to offer Ishmael and his family?
“We have no money, but we can offer your daughters hardships in the desert while we wander around looking for the Promised Land and avoiding Laban’s family just in case…” seems a bit scarce on the incentive scale…
AmyJ wrote:
“We have no money, but we can offer your daughters hardships in the desert while we wander around looking for the Promised Land and avoiding Laban’s family just in case…” seems a bit scarce on the incentive scale…
It’s a bit of a head scratcher…isn’t it? Maybe they talked of a promised land, and avoiding being destroyed or enslaved and sold the idea.
On the other hand…what did Joseph Smith have to offer to Emma incentives but a similar life of hardships?
There is that. What we know of Lehi’s standing is what can be extrapolated…
1)
He was now a visionary– he preached to the people. Word would have gotten around… 2)
He left Jerusalem for an extended period of time prior to contact with Ishmael and his family. The timing will need to consider leaving Jerusalem, sons returning to Jerusalem hanging around a few days and leaving again, reporting/resting with Lehi, then the sons showing up on Ishmael’s doorstep. 3)
His money is now gone. I don’t see Ishmael not knowing that Lehi has no assets in Jerusalem. I can see Laban’s death not necessarily connected to Laman and Lemuel specifically unless Laman and Lemuel and co. broadcast Nephi’s actions. It could be that Ishmael was an old crony who didn’t like Laban anyways and was looking for a way out of Jerusalem. It could be that the plans to intermarry the families went way back… Or that Laman and Lemuel were sufficently motivated to make a good sales pitch…or something else entirely…
Alone in a promised land with no obvious choices for “wholesome recreational activities” of the marital variety? Yep, solid motivation to develop an exceptional sales pitch.
:thumbup: Do you think there is a layer of sexism in the story? Kind of like this…the story focuses around Lehi’s family full of sons, and Ishmael’s family of women are like the Brass Plates…something they want to bring along with their journey…not really individuals with their own story.
:think: I just don’t see any real good answers to your question of why they would hitch up and go to the desert.My guess is it goes along the lines of how Brigham Young got people to walk across the plains to the west…if the gospel is true…then you go join the church and separate yourself from the world.
Since Lehi was a prophet, and Nephi was righteous, then groups would follow them because they have the gospel. And then…they hold dances and hookup and make a life of it and raise their children in the church.
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