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Hi Everyone! Here’s a little bit about me:
I’m an active lds member. I pay my tithing. I hold an active temple recommend. My family left the church many years ago. I’m in my late 20s and single.
I’m having dilemma with the religion as of the late due to many reasons. I could never accept the polygamy doctrine and learning what JS did disgusted me, along with early church leaders. I don’t know what I think about BOM and the whole thing.
However, I love the values the gospel teaches ( that does not include polygamy, of course). The gospel in its purest form makes sense for the most part. I love the idea of WOW ( yes I realize that it is a bit flawed, though) because I’m from a family wirh alcoholism and avoiding alcohol makes sense. I love the idea o law chasity because it helps avoid any ” misunderstanding” and keep things very scare and serious, not something to be taken lightly. Logically, there are a lot of emotions involved in intimate relationships so it is critical to avoid any misunderstanding ( even if it was unintentional. We all know how powerful our emotions can shape our reality). These are just examples.
However, I’ve been an active tithing layer but I’m at the point i need to stop paying tithing due to ethic reasons. I’m on disability and am a college student. I live on a VERY low paycheck, that doesn’t even cover the very basic necessities. Hence, I’m living on my student loan to help pay the very basic necessities. Im also in debt with my credit credit. As you can tell, I’m drowning badly here.
My parents helped me with a few things and it hit me very hard. It is ethically wrong to give money to a rich organization then ask other people for help ( in whom are also struggling themselves.). Ethically, I have a responsibility to make ends meet and get myself out of the hole. For a time, I was hoping and praying for miracles to help, but ( this also has been an struggle for me) i also wonder, where is the line? When does God himself meddle with law of nature to giv us blessings we need, when he cannot/ or will not.?
I’m only venting my situation not for pity but to help you understand where I’m coming from about tithing dilemma.
It also breaks my heart that I will lose my temple recommend over this. I’m a single woman who do want to get married in the temple and be sealed ( even if the temple is flawed, I love the idea of being sealed for externality there has to be some truth to this). I’m worthy in every single way. The church teaches single people only to date others whom are temple worthy and when the guys I date learns that I don’t have a TR, for a lack of better words, I’m screwed. Im already at a disadvanahe here being too “old” and single. I can’t imagine marrying someone that doesn’t share the values as I do and not being sealed forever. I don’t know. If I never marry, it’s not the end of the world. I am ok with it but everyone of us would love to share their lives with someone at one point.
There’s garment concerns here. My garments are old and won’t last much longer. What do I do then?
I also saw the mormonthink.com. I studied and read about many things about the church that should destroy my ” faith” by now. I just can’t see myself living my life, believing in no God. I didnt grow up in the church myself. What purpose of life would there be? I also love the good values. It’s a huge part of me. The values are what protect me from many many potential mistakes. I also cannot accept some of the doctrines nor can I accept the flaws ( for instances, temple ceremony before it was changed) of men that makes it ” truth” like polygamy and that BY taught that God was Adam. Who was right? I have no idea.
I hope my introduction doesn’t turn anyone away. I have no where to turn with my dilemma. I hope I’m in the right place to figure things out.
Welcome! I hope you gain some insights you find valuable here. My personal take on your tithing situation is you don’t have any real income, don’t expect too much of yourself. If you were a business you would owe no taxes because when your expenses are greater than your revenue you have no profit, no income, no tax liability.
I believe this was the situation of the “widow’s mite” story, she had nothing to give so with her minimal contribution she gave more than them all. If you have no real “income” you could give a dollar and it will be “more” than is expected.
In the end what you pay is completely between you and the Lord. Your reporting is to God, the bishop in tithing settlement is only a representation of that. Decide between you and God, explain to nobody but God.
Welcome. Quote:“Ethically, I have a responsibility to make ends meet and get myself out of the hole.”
Amen – and if you have no “increase” – no profit – and are not spending beyond your means, I believe you have no obligation to pay tithing – unless the Church is willing to pay the bills, through Fast Offering assistance, that you would have paid with your tithing money. If you income is zero, your tithing obligation is zero. A token payment to show sincere, good-faith effort would not be required but would be an “offering” in the purest sense of the word.
Thanks guys for the welcome. I agree. UnfoetunTely, my bishop tells me my disability checks is still considered as my income and he has the “power” to determine my temple worthiness. It’s hard when someone else hold the power to determine your ” worthiness”. Ah, much information has already been shared. Well meaning leaders have their opinions, that is a fact. Hang in there, a new approach for you may reveal itself. Pay your tithing directly to the Church in SLC, not through your ward. It’s a legitimate payment method that lots of members use. and hang in there. It really does suck sometimes dealing with local leaders who see things differently than we do, but it’s part of life, unfortunately.
Like ray said. If you pay direct to SLC it will simply tell your bishop you are paying. But not how much. If you pay what you feel is fair and just telling him you pay direct then it’s covered. Welcome Janes! Janes now wrote:I’m worthy in every single way. The church teaches single people only to date others whom are temple worthy and when the guys I date learns that I don’t have a TR, for a lack of better words, I’m screwed. Im already at a disadvanahe here being too “old” and single. I can’t imagine marrying someone that doesn’t share the values as I do and not being sealed forever. I don’t know. If I never marry, it’s not the end of the world. I am ok with it but everyone of us would love to share their lives with someone at one point.
When you begin a relationship with someone, I would try to look at the whole picture of the person. Sometimes we place too much emphasis on certain cultural markers: RM, “celestial smile,” etc. I know that its not easy. I have a friend that had serious anxiety attacks in the MTC and didn’t complete his mission. He subsequently had a very hard time getting second dates. I wish that we could all lay off the checklist for a while – or at least have personal checklists for the things we ourselves find important. I think that the right guy for you would see more in you than just a TR. BTW my friend did eventually marry a wonderful woman and they are quite happy with their young family.
Janes now wrote:Thanks guys for the welcome. I agree. UnfoetunTely, my bishop tells me my disability checks is still considered as my income and he has the “power” to determine my temple worthiness. It’s hard when someone else hold the power to determine your ” worthiness”.
The great news is that no one else but God can determine your worthiness – and He has already voted by giving you every precious gift (not even holding back His only begotten son). I am in a similar position as you are. In 6ish months my eldest child will turn 8, will my Bishop allow me to perform the baptism? It is something that I have just taken for granted since I was little – of course I will baptise my children. Whatever happens I will focus on 2 things: 1) The baptism is not about me and I need to be supportive of the needs of the child and 2) the Bishop is an administrator for the ward and has the power to make administrative decisions – these decisions have no bearing on my relative worthiness. I am of great worth – the scriptures say so!
Janes now wrote:For a time, I was hoping and praying for miracles to help, but ( this also has been an struggle for me) i also wonder, where is the line? When does God himself meddle with law of nature to giv us blessings we need, when he cannot/ or will not.?
I have no doubt that God blesses your life. Every good thing comes from God so all you have left to do is ask yourself if there are any good things in your life. This is not the same thing as saying that specific and miraculous blessings will be yours. That I do not believe. I also do not believe that God will bless you more or less depending on your tithing status. I believe that there is much good in the world that should be enjoyed and appreciated. Thinking of these things as blessings is helpful. It keeps me in a spirit of humility and gratitude. Worrying about losing blessings if I don’t do XYZ is not helpful for me.
Janes now wrote:There’s garment concerns here. My garments are old and won’t last much longer. What do I do then?
That is an easy one! You can just buy new garments over the internet. Did you really think that the church wanted you to wear holey underwear? Holy underwear yes, Holey underwear no! Although… that would be an interesting and demented twist on the ancient practice of sackcloth and ashes. [Mock stern voice] “May your underwear deteriorate to discolored and fragmented rags until you see the error of your ways!”
😈 Sorry for my irreverence. The point is that you are good, you are lovely (worthy of love), and you are worthy just the way that you are!
You don’t have to be a current TR holder to buy garments, just be an endowed member. As for the tithing, I second the recommendation that you pay directly to COB. I would add to that your bishop doesn’t get to define what tithing is. It’s “increase” not “income” – he can look it up. I realize many people say “income,” but that’s simply not the definition. What is increase? You decide. Square it with god, and don’t worry about what man thinks. But that’s easier said than done when you have a bishop who is being intrusive.
hawkgrrrl wrote:I would add to that your bishop doesn’t get to define what tithing is. It’s “increase” not “income” – he can look it up. I realize many people say “income,” but that’s simply not the definition. What is increase? You decide. Square it with god, and don’t worry about what man thinks.
I would also add that some statement (FP letter?) equated increase with income, but “income” is not the same as “wages” or even “cashflow.” “Income” started out in a personal sense with a meaning more similar to the business definition of the word. We don’t consider business “sales” at all the same thing as “profit” which is synonymous with “income.” There is a big gray fuzzy line in the personal sense between needs and wants, but it is a good topic to spend some time thinking about.
You guys are so helpful, thank you! Indeed, I agree. We need to look past the ” RM” title and such. I got pressured into marriage when I was 19, I barely returned to church.
Long story short, I tried to walk out on my wedding day but i got to the temple later than scheduled and they rushed me to the bridal room and I cried very hard. My dad knew what was wrong and tried to talk to me but they didnt let him and rushed me to the bridal room. I told my cousin I shouldn’t marry him and the temple worker came and took me straight to the sealing room. We skipped the veil. By the point I’m in the sealing room with his family, friends ( most of my family doesn’t have TR) staring at me. I was a emotional wreck. I wish I was stronger enough to get away from the temple workers and run out of the temple. I was undiagnosed with bipolar disorder and got diagnosed many years later, so that helped shed a light on this ordeal. Anyway, I got a divorce before my first anniversary to make things right again.
I remember going to church for weeks and I came home crying every single week because of how I was treated because of my choice to get a divorce. My mother could not understand why I kept going.
:wtf: I suppose I kept going because I wanted to prove to God that I’m not a horrible person because I had to break the temple covanent I made. I don’t know. The irony thing is, I don’t regret my decision to get a divorce. Not even a bit. It was the most difficult and the best decision I have ever made.The bottom line is, I don’t look for Superficial qualities in a man like us typical lds girls has been taught ( must be a returned missionary, temple worthy, etc). I’m already looked down by other people because of my past and that’s not something I would do to anyone else. Ever. If you guys have ever been to the singles ward, you see how girls can be um, for the lack of better term, um Aggressive.
:crazy: I’m grateful for every one of you who took the time to welcome me!
Apparently I’m still picking up the pieces when my faith scrattered and shedding the beliefs that causes me more heartache than good. But what is the truth? Who knows?
Btw where do I find the instructions regarding paying tithing directly to the HQ? They are not getting a dime from men for the time being until I’m finally self sustaining and can pay my bulls, I may reconsider at one point in the future when I have an ” increase”. I stumbled across this blog and it helped a lot. I do not know If you guys saw this but here it is just in case. http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2012/12/are-we-paying-too-much-tithing.html Janes now, Quick question: Did you just describe your wedding day, and was it tour first trip to the temple?
It was my wedding day experience. Please let me know where/how I become confusing when I described my wedding day experience.
Wedding day but not first time? (I’m just trying to understand everything as well as I can.)
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