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Hello all and thanks for all your help and indirect encouragement as I have been lurking around for the past couple of months. I am a life long member, married to a great guy and have wonderful children. I have been up and down with my testimony all my life and always felt it was my fault for not doing enough (reading scriptures, praying, going to the temple). I had times that I felt very good about the church and felt almost comfortable saying that I know the church is true. There were always nagging doubts that I just couldn’t ignore completely, especially the temple ceremony. That was quite a shocker and it never felt right to me. But I wanted to be faithful and I carried on and ignored my gut feelings. I learned about the Masonic influences a few years back, which explained a lot, but I comforted myself with the idea that the Masonic influences stemmed all the way back to the days of Solomon (which I no longer believe). I always had a backward testimony of Joseph Smith being a prophet via having a testimony of the Book of Mormon, but I never really studied much about JS and frankly have never been much interested in history of any kind–its just not my thing. A few months back, I wanted to strengthen my testimony so that I could tell my children (who do not believe in the church) without doubt about the truthfulness of the gospel and prayed for a stronger faith. The next day I stumbled onto all the information that is the cause of my faith crises. There is a lot I can rationalize away, but what Is really a smoking gun for me is the Boom of Abraham facsimile debacle. JS got it wrong, just plain wrong. No apologist explanation has been helpful to me. So now I am trying to figure out if JS was a prophet or a fraud or something in-between. So despite my distaste for studying history, I am now knee deep in the quagmire that is early church history. I have read his first three journals available through the Joseph Smith papers in the hopes of gaining some insight to his personal character. I am disappointed that most entries are dictated and therefore, not necessarily his private thoughts. I’m interested in everyone’s views on the prophet. If he was not a good man and if his writings were not of divine origin, I think it will be very hard for me to stay LDS. My husband is loving and supportive of my doubts, but does not want to look at things as he had his own faith crisis (I just found out) right after his mission which sent him to a deep dark place which led to drug use for a short time and he does not want to experience that pain again. He now believes and I need to support him in his faith. But that leaves me alone outside of online support, which I am grateful to have.
As I usually do, I will link to a LONG thread about him so you can read all of the responses from people before you started lurking: “Joseph Prophet or Not”( http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1059&hilit=Joseph+Smith For my own thoughts about Joseph, here are two posts from my own blog – and a thought-provoking one from Feminist Mormon Housewives:
“Why I Love and Honor Joseph Smith – and Emma”( http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2012/07/why-i-love-and-honor-joseph-smith-and.html “A Very Short Tribute to Joseph Smith”( http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2008/09/very-short-tribute-to-joseph-smith.html “Dealing with Joseph”( http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/2012/02/dealing-with-joseph/ I am mixed on JS. I once had a discussion with someone on Mormon Matters about the possibilities regarding JS: 1 – he was a fraud, but a religious genius.
2 – he was the real deal 100% – the Truman S Madsen version. A Spiritual Superman.
3 – he was delusional, possibly mentally ill. Or another version, he chewed on a hallucinogenic weed that caused his visions.
4 – he was inspired but also had moments of arrogance and error. He did have visions, but at other times he was led astray by his own desires.
I’m in the 4th camp, but many people in the church are in the 2nd one and many outside the church are in the 1st one. The 3rd camp is one you’ll find mostly outside the church, but a few inside the church. I tend to believe he didn’t make it all up, but that he did make up some of it. But that he believed it. Remember that the best salespeople buy what they sell.
As for the BOA, the most satisfying answer I have is that he was “inspired” to create it. There are some things in there that are quite similar to the apocrypha about Abraham which he didn’t have access to. But the descriptions of the funerary texts? Not accurate, IMO. Of course, Song of Solomon as a metaphor for Christ’s love? Ha! More like soft porn. So there’s plenty of precedent for non-spiritual origins for scripture.
I tend to lean on a mix of 3 and 4. Reading his biography written by his mother…and to be honest her family was an odd bunch. Not hard to see where Joseph came from after hearing her family’s background…as to that his father’s visions….well…it could be a mix Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2
Welcome Martha! I would also recommend Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman to get a better grasp of Joseph Smith.
For me I say Joseph was definitely a regular human being, he did make some mistakes – sometimes real doosies!
😯 But after that shock wears off and I continue to study him I can’t help but see some moments of pure inspiration.Is the church perfect? No. And that can be a HUGE disappointment to many of us that were raised with much higher expectations. In the end though I do see many divine teachings in the church – even if many members interpret them in what I would call a slightly
twistedway. It is my joy and my challenge to sift through everything I hear and read to find the nuggets of Godliness and try to apply them in my life. I no longer do something simply because it is suggested to me in church — I do what I sincerely believe will help me, my family, my community, and then the world – in that order – obtain a higher level of all the divine attributes [Love, charity, truth, joy, etc.] I hope you will also find a comfortable personal path.
Orson wrote:I would also recommend Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman to get a better grasp of Joseph Smith.
For me I say Joseph was definitely a regular human being, he did make some mistakes – sometimes real doosies!
😯 But after that shock wears off and I continue to study him I can’t help but see some moments of pure inspiration.Is the church perfect? No. And that can be a HUGE disappointment to many of us that were raised with much higher expectations.
I downloaded the book and I am really liking it.
I know I am being influenced by my Mormon upbringing so am wanting to find an all true or all false solution. I want the church to be perfect. I want the foundational leader to be more than he was. I am working through this loss. I’ve made it past denial and anger (mostly) and am thoroughly entrenched in “bargaining.” “Please Lord, show me that the church is true and that Joseph Smith was your prophet.
hawkgrrrl wrote:There are some things in there that are quite similar to the apocrypha about Abraham which he didn’t have access to.
I have found articles that state there are similarities, but I haven’t found anything that says what the similarities are. I’m interested in this. Do you know what the similarities are or do you have a good source?
Thanks everyone for your welcome and support.
It’s been a while since I looked at the BoA stuff. There was a FAIR that had some interesting points. Also, there are parallels to the Book of Jasher which is apocryphal. Here’s a link on why Mormons are hot and bothered about it: http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2002/jasher.html On a good day I view BOA like the book of Jasher, an apocryphal collection of stories of dubious origin but that are directionally consistent with other apocryphal sources. Then again, maybe that applies to the Book of Mormon too. Books, even scripture, are only as good as their influence on your life.
hawkgrrrl wrote:It’s been a while since I looked at the BoA stuff. There was a FAIR that had some interesting points. Also, there are parallels to the Book of Jasher which is apocryphal. Here’s a link on why Mormons are hot and bothered about it:
http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2002/jasher.html Great article. I also found a similar article with parallels between the Book of Enoch and the
Book of Moses.
http://strongreasons.wordpress.com/2009/01/27/the-book-of-enoch-and-the-book-of-moses/ It’s nice to have some evidences that point to Joseph getting some things right as a seer to counteract some of things he got wrong (I.e.the BofA facsimiles).
I am starting to accept some of his imperfections as a man. I wonder if maybe I also need to accept some of his imperfections as a seer and revelator. Hmmmmmm. This thought may take some time to process.
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