What if you knew for sure?

It depends on what day you catch me. Some days I stay because it might be true. I hedge my bets and figure the chance that its true and the ‘size of the prize’ makes it worth the investment. However, on those days, if I was given irrefutable evidence that it’s not true then I would stay.

On other days I accept it’s probably not true but accept it’s still a useful man made vehicle for developing a relationship with a God as I perceive him. On those days I’d stay even if it were proven false as it’s the best of a bad lot.

Either way, I think there is not ONE true and living church. I think there are many. Some are true and live for some people and some are true and live for others.

Suppose you and a handful of others had irrefutable evidence that the church was entirely fiction. There was no doubt that the the first vision, the BofM, the priesthood, temple ordinances, the whole shebang from top to bottom was a product of either a con or a pious fraud at best. But in no way held any divine origin. What would you do? Would you still try to make it work in your life. Could you teach sunday school with conviction? Would your brain spin the whole thing so you actually believed it was a great organization with many good things.

I suppose it would depend on the context of the evidence. If the evidence was proof that there is no God and that there is no afterlife – then I suppose I would still try to stay for the values and community support. If the evidence proved that God did exist but that he didn’t really care too much what church a person might attend then I would try to stay for the same reasons. If the evidence proved that God existed, that there is a heaven, but that the LDS process wouldn’t get you there (Because it focuses too much on works over grace, or because it doesn’t recognize the prophet Mohammed, or because it doesn’t actually hold the necessary priesthood for effective saving ordinances, etc.) – then I would leave the LDS church and join a church with all the required ingredients to get me to heaven (and try to get all my loved ones to do the same).

Without straining the comparison too much – I suppose it is like asking what if you had evidence that your job/career was not the “one true” job for you. Would you still work the job? I would still work the job until I found significant evidence what the “one true” job (where I would be wildly successful, fulfilled, and happy) for me is. I don’t just want to spend the rest of my life trying out different jobs – trying to find my self!

Similar question with different ramifications. What if you knew for certain that your spouse was not your ideal or “one true” spouse? Suppose that it was revealed unto you that you would find a peak level of success, fulfillment, and happiness with another specific “soul mate.” Suppose that you have been married for 15 years and have children. Would you still try to make your existing marriage and family work?

Maybe my answer will seem irrelevant to question or maybe it comes from a mom heart that believes in places of nurture – but I think if there were some way of absolute proof that all of the underpinnings were a full out hoax – I don’t know if I would totally abandon all that I have learned. Nor would I cease teaching the positive lessons I’ve learned through my faith experience here.

I’ve thought about your question since I read it last night. I kept coming back to my day to day life. I live in a basic middle class neighborhood. Near me are nicer newer homes, bigger and cooler. Not far from me is a poorer side of town that looks dangerous and scary. Which of these neighborhoods is true? The answer isn’t that simple.

As a mom I know that horrible things exist in this life. Maybe even closer than I want to admit. (As a side note we had a neighbor arrested one halloween – right here on the street, all while trick or treating was happening. It was mind blowing and unexpected.) At the same time I believe in better. I believe in human ability to make relationships safe, to care for possessions, to build respectful communities. Because I believe that, I choose to align my life with as many opportunities for my kids to feel the possibility of the type of community I believe in. And for many years my efforts to create a world that supports my belief have succeeded. What my kids do when the choice is theirs, will be theirs. I hope they share a similar dream and work to create it or participate in it.

I see my connection to my religion very much the same. No religion or philosophy can confirm what happens after we die. Even near death experiences aren’t proof, just more faith or ideas. And if Mormonism is made up, it’s no worse than any other made up faith – but I’ve looked around and there are things in it that make my heart sing – just like the neighborhood I am creating. So I would try and retain the best parts, striving to keep actions that will create a faith or religion that lives up to what I sense is best in my life. I believe that is why I still choose to Stay LDS. I don’t stay unaware.

Would you still try to make it work in your life. Could you teach sunday school with conviction?

I do try to make it work in my life. I can’t and won’t teach something I don’t believe. I never knew X, Y or Z, I just believed it, and that was functionally the same. I still don’t know, but there’s so much I don’t believe. I haven’t been put in the position of teaching or recommend-renewing yet. Funny that I’ve been given this long of a break. It’s almost like I’m being watched over and not put in a situation that would cause a short-circuit. I concentrate on loving and serving the people right in front of me.

For a black and white thinker like myself some of these post were enlightening

Cadence – I have never thought of you as black and white thinker. Thanks for sharing that. It’s funny we are all here but we hardly know each other.

Black and White thinking is interesting to me. At one time in my life I would say Black and White was the difference between right and wrong, fact and fiction, etc. Now I wonder if it is the difference in what I want it to be. Take Joseph Smith for example. All my life I have been told, taught and believed him to be a prophet of God. I was also told what the characteristics of a prophet were and I accepted them. I trusted the sources that told me. And for good reason. They had told me many other things that had been accurate and helpful; such as don’t breathe underwater. Sure enough when I breathe underwater life is pretty painful.

Under my old black and white definition – The Joseph I now know may not qualify. But I decided that before I cancelled Joseph from my life I would look back at other prophets – Old Testament ones came to mind – and low and behold, in their own time and calling there is some crazy stuff they did. Because I get long winded I won’t detail it here. But God kept calling them (according to scripture) – prophets. They had multiple wives, they lied, they murdered, they hid, they went away from their people, then miraculously, came back with scripture on rocks. Too crazy. Now I had to decide for myself what was black and what was white. I’m still processing, but the death grip on had on Joseph has loosened. I can’t guarantee it will remain that way but for now I’ll let he and God decide if he was a prophet.

Edited by author

mackay- I stand corrected. Bushman says Joseph subordinated his seership and translation abilities, instead introduced himself as Prophet. My bad.Thanks for catching it.

But still I get the feeling “Joseph the Seer” was a common title for him back in the day – at least during some early years, or among some people.