Home Page Forums General Discussion I don’t get it.

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  • #207555
    Anonymous
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    Boyd Packer said:

    Quote:

    Tolerance is a virtue, but, like all virtues, when exaggerated it transforms itself into a vice,” said the 88-year-old Packer, speaking from his chair rather than from the pulpit. “We need to be careful of the ‘tolerance trap’ so that we are not swallowed up in it.”

    Thomas Monson Said:

    Quote:

    Latter-day Saints should be “tolerant of, as well as kind and loving to, those who do not share our beliefs and our standards,” Monson said. “The Savior brought to this Earth a message of love and good will to all men and women.”

    #268095
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Packer. Ignore. Repeat.

    #268096
    Anonymous
    Guest

    It may help to place the quote in context if you first understand:

    Quote:

    Faith is a virtue, but, like all virtues, when exaggerated it transforms itself into a vice, We need to be careful of the ‘faith trap’ so that we are not swallowed up in it.

    #268097
    Anonymous
    Guest

    hawkgrrrl wrote:

    Packer. Ignore. Repeat.

    :clap:

    #268098
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Even our leaders see many things differently – and that’s a wonderful thing to me.

    I actually agree that we can be too tolerant (I’m thinking of the initial, long reaction to Nazi Germany.), but I also believe that Elder Packer draws his tolerance lines more strictly than I do – and than each of the members of the First Presidency does.

    Pres. Uchtdorf stressed that the Church doesn’t want its members to be carbon copies and that we need to accept and respect our diversity. We applaud and love him for saying it that clearly – but it’s harder for us to apply it to those with whom we disagree. We have Pres. Uchtdorf and Pres. Packer – and that ought to be the model for the church membership as a whole.

    I can’t ask to be accepted for myself, unless I am willing to accept Pres. Packer for himself – and that is a HUGELY important principle to accept and embrace. Let me repeat that:

    I don’t agree with everything Pres. Packer says, but I MUST accept him with his sincere beliefs if I ask to be accepted with mine. If you and I can’t do that, we are no different than you believe him to be in that regard.

    #268099
    Anonymous
    Guest

    It might help to remember that part in the temple about teaching the philosophies of man mingled with scripture? Well my take on scripture and religion is it mostly the philosophies of man.

    #268100
    Anonymous
    Guest

    So I have listened to both this morning — obviously droopy (on another site) has found that the two are consistent. Packer does emphasize that tolerance, taken to extreme, becomes a vice — this is what he refers to as a “tolerance trap”, but because he no longer qualifies the type of tolerance he is discussing is extreme, he implicitly indicts all tolerance.

    President Monson’s message in his main talk wasn’t about tolerance, it was about ‘obedience’, anchored by his personal confession of childhood fire-starting. His talk is not dominated by ‘tolerance’. It was so important to pay years of tithing for a german refugee in Hungary in order to feel ‘worthy’… even to emphasize that the savior was never disloyal, ever was he obedient. Jesus, even in gethsemane was obedient to what he knew was right. knowledge of everything we need to know is entirely dependent upon our living the commandments.

    But in his final message, he said, as you noted: “May we be tolerant…pause…as well as kind, and loving to those who do not share our beliefs and standards. The savior brought to this earth a message of love and good will to all men and women…may we ever follow his example. I pray that we may be aware of the needs around us.”

    The pause was quite pregnant with meaning.

    #268101
    Anonymous
    Guest

    cwald wrote:

    Boyd Packer said:

    Quote:

    Tolerance is a virtue, but, like all virtues, when exaggerated it transforms itself into a vice,” said the 88-year-old Packer, speaking from his chair rather than from the pulpit. “We need to be careful of the ‘tolerance trap’ so that we are not swallowed up in it.”

    Thomas Monson Said:

    Quote:

    Latter-day Saints should be “tolerant of, as well as kind and loving to, those who do not share our beliefs and our standards,” Monson said. “The Savior brought to this Earth a message of love and good will to all men and women.”

    Sometimes Church leaders including President Monson have used the word “permissive” in talks as if being too nice to “sinners” would somehow be equivalent to directly condoning and encouraging their behaviors we are supposed to disagree with and that’s why they want to make it clear that they absolutely do not approve of gay marriage, pre-marital sex, porn, “self abuse”, drinking, smoking, etc. I think Church leaders typically justify this hard-line approach by adopting some form of the old “love the sinner, hate the sin” mantra. To me it mostly looks extremely self-righteous and nosy for Church leaders to worry so much about other people’s decisions that don’t directly involve them and make it their business to this extent when they could just as easily stay out of it and let God be the judge.

    #268102
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I hope that man never gets the top job.

    #268103
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Sam, fwiw, I greatly preferred Church Pres. Benson over Q12 Pres. and Elder Benson – and I feel the same way about Pres. Kimball.

    All of the things that bothered me the most from them came before they became Church Presidents.

    #268104
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Whenever I’m asked to sustain the twelve his image appears in my head. :(

    #268105
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Quote:

    Tolerance is a virtue, but, like all virtues, when exaggerated it transforms itself into a vice. We need to be careful of the ‘tolerance trap’ so that we are not swallowed up in it. The permissiveness afforded by the weakening of the laws of the land to tolerate legalized acts of immorality does not reduce the spiritual consequences that result from the violation of God’s law of chastity. Source


    I think the phrase “when exaggerated it transforms itself into a vice” is very wise and true. A line must be drawn somewhere.

    hawkgrrrl wrote:

    Packer. Ignore. Repeat.


    I would rather take all the good from his words that I can.

    #268106
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I don’t get it either. Maybe we are just to simple minded. As a kid it alway confused me when my Dad said one thing and my Mom said another. I would usually listen to the one I agreed with and if I got in trouble I would say, “Well, the other parent said this….” It worked for me then and it works now but again I am simple minded.

    #268107
    Anonymous
    Guest

    church0333 wrote:

    I don’t get it either. Maybe we are just to simple minded. As a kid it alway confused me when my Dad said one thing and my Mom said another. I would usually listen to the one I agreed with and if I got in trouble I would say, “Well, the other parent said this….” It worked for me then and it works now but again I am simple minded.


    I don’t see a contradiction with what these two said. President Monson said be tolerant and kind. President Packer would agree, but adds that we can’t take tolerance to an extreme. I do not tolerate views of NAMBLA, for example.

    #268108
    Anonymous
    Guest

    True, we can’t tolerate everything. Even few militant gays tolerate NAMBLA. This is the downside of so called liberalism – we can’t tolerate violence against women or female circumcision just because another culture practises it.

    That does not make us completely intolerant. Tolerance, too, has its limits. However, I don’t jive with Boyd’s subtext, which is probably about sex, gays or his other tropes.

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