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  • #207581
    Anonymous
    Guest

    So I’ve been studying perceived anachronisms is the Book of Mormon. They can be bothersome things. Ultimately, it comes down to faith because no discovery will definitively prove the Book of Mormon is true or false (until the Second Coming?). However, it should get some credit where it is due!

    What is interesting is that it’s hard to find a list of former anachronisms – those that were proven wrong. It seems that it’s not cool to acknowledge these – an article on Wikipedia (which is more and more becoming the de-facto authority on history for the masses) states:

    Quote:

    19th century archaeological finds (e.g. earth and timber fortifications and towns, the use of a plaster-like cement, ancient roads, metal points and implements, copper breastplates, head-plates, textiles, pearls, native North American inscriptions, North American elephant remains etc.) are not interpreted by mainstream academia as proving the historicity or divinity of the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon is viewed by many mainstream scholars as a work of fiction that parallels others within the 19th century “Mound-builder” genre that were pervasive at the time.


    Do the Smithsonian Institute and National Geographic Society have something against Mormons? Anyway, here are some things that I see as former or questionable anachronisms. Please add to the list, tell me if any of these were really not seen as an anachronism, and point out where I am full of rubbish.

    FORMER

    BAPTISM

    Some criticisms:

    Quote:

    “[The Book of Mormon] says that Christians should be baptized by “immersion,” long before the advent of the Messiah. Greater marks of fraud could not be given….”1

    “…the Nephites could hardly have known… [the word] baptize….”2


    Time magazine reported:

    Quote:

    The most startling disclosure of the Essene documents so far published is that the sect possessed, years before Christ, a terminology and practice that have always been considered uniquely Christian. The Essenes practiced baptism and shared a liturgical repast of bread and wine presided over by a priest.3


    Also this:

    Quote:

    The word “baptize” βαπτίζω baptizo signifies originally to tinge, to dye, to stain, as those who dye clothes. It here means to cleanse or wash anything by the application of water. See the notes at Mark 7:4. Washing, or ablution, was much in use among the Jews, as one of the rites of their religion, (Numbers 19:7; Hebrews 9:10). It was not customary, however, among them to baptize those who were converted to the Jewish religion until after the Babylonian captivity.


    HONEY BEES

    The mention of the “honey bee” in the book of Ether has been criticized.stingless honey bee[/url] is in the same sub-family Apinae and it fits the bill. Also this:

    Quote:

    Before the introduction of Old World species such as sugarcane and Apis mellifera L. to the New World, the only concentrated source of sweetener was “honey”1 produced by stingless bees (Hymenoptera: Apidae: Meliponinae) and a few species of honey-making wasps (Hymenoptera: Vespidae).

    [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Meliponula_ferruginea.jpg/399px-Meliponula_ferruginea.jpg[/img]

    QUESTIONABLE

    ELEPHANT

    Assuming that a mastodon could have been called an elephant, we can consider that mastodon remains found in Michigan have been dated to 3400 BP. That’s a lot closer to the Jaredite time period compared to 10,000 BC, which is widely believed to be when they became extinct. However, the dating is questionable:

    Quote:

    Untreated bone material in reasonably good condition was submitted to Geochron Laboratories, Cambridge, Masssachusetts, for radiocarbon dating. The date returned was 3400 + 130 years B.P. The sample is believed to be contaminated with organic carbon from the surrounding sediment, based on a 13C of -28.


    Remains in Indiana were dated to 5300 BP, but:

    Quote:

    For various reasons, particularly contamination and sampling of material which was not contemporaneous with the bones, several of the youngest dates have been rejected as nonreliable (Hester, 1960; Skeels, 1962; Dreimanis, 1967a; and Martin, 1968).


    [img]http://exhibits.museum.state.il.us/exhibits/larson/images/mammut.jpg[/img]

    So are there valid reasons to reject dates, or do they find a reason to reject a date that doesn’t fit in their preconceived theory?

    SWINE

    I guess “swine” refers to animals of the Suidae family. Peccaries are in the same suborder as pigs (Suina), but they are in the Tayassuidae family. Does a peccary produce bacon? Isn’t it close enough?

    [img]http://www.heathwood.org/simpson/quicklinks/animalsoftherainforest/peccary1.jpg[/img]

    OX

    This could refer to any bovine: The New World Encyclopedia states:

    Quote:

    Narrowly defined, an ox (plural: Oxen) is any adult, castrated male of domesticated cattle (Bos taurus or Bos primigenius) that is trained as a draft animal. However, the term also is used in a broader sense to refer variously to any domesticated form of large bovid (family Bovidae), including buffalo and bison, or any large, usually horned bovine animal (subfamly Bovinae) used for draught, or to the castrated male of any member of the Bos genus.


    Wikipedia states:

    Quote:

    Bovine is derived from Latin bos, “ox”, through Late Latin bovinus. Bos comes from the Indo-European root *gwous, meaning ox.The meaning of bovinus is a Latin word and it means ox.


    Did “ox” have the same meaning when the Book of Mormon was first published? I really don’t know.

    I have more, but this is taking too long.

    1. LaRoy Sunderland, Mormonism Exposed and Refuted (Piercy & Reed Printers, New York, 1838).

    2. William J. Whalen, The Latter-Day Saints In The Modern Day World (University of Notre Dame Press, 1964).

    3. TIME, Dead Sea Jewels Monday, Sept. 05, 1955

    4. Albert Barnes Notes on the Bible, Matthew 3:6 http://www.gotothebible.com/Barnes/Matthew/3.html

    5. Thomas D.S. Key, Sc.D., Ed.D. (Biology), Th.D. (1985), “A Biologist Examines the Book of Mormon” (Journal of the American Scientific Affiliation, XXX-VIII, 2, June 1985).

    #268556
    Anonymous
    Guest

    As a former history teacher, and out of personal curiosity, I’ve read a lot of things that were criticisms of lots of written claims that have been dismissed by later discoveries. It really is incredible how common such misguided criticisms have been and still are. It doesn’t prove anything one way or another with regard to the Book of Mormon, but it is fascinating how many claims of anachronisms in that book have dropped away in light of later discoveries. The best example probably is the elephant reference, since it occurs in the Book of Ether (and we have no clue what time period that covers, really) – and since there are American Indian references to elephant-like creatures that would fit the general time frame.

    Language (specific vocabulary words) is another non-starter for me, since “translations” always depend on the vocabulary of the translator and, almost always, include approximations for words that don’t translate perfectly. (The existence of non-English, non-translated words in the Book of Mormon actually is a good argument for a “translation process” of some kind.) Often a criticism, the use of “adieu” is a perfect example of vocabulary precision in the Book of Mormon, since the root meaning of that word fits perfectly (and I mean perfectly) the context of the passage – far better than any single English word would. I came to that conclusion on my own at a fairly early age, because I wanted to see why in the world Joseph would have used that word – or, from a traditional perspective, why that word would have appeared to him. I looked it up in a dictionary, saw the original, complex meaning, saw where it was used and, just as importantly, where it was NOT used, and realized it was the perfect choice for the context.

    There are legitimate concerns about the historicity of the Book of Mormon, including the way that King James Bible passages and phrases occur in it, but I’ve yet to see a historical anachronism that I believe is a serious threat.

    #268557
    Anonymous
    Guest

    These are always interesting discussions, but I find myself having difficulty becoming emotionally invested in them. To me the divinity of the BoM has nothing whatever to do with historicity. It may be historical to a small or large degree, that would be wonderful, but it does not have any bearing on the value of book to me. The value and evidence of the book’s divinity comes to me directly off the pages, no external influence can change that. Somehow I would feel like I’m putting too much trust in the arm of flesh if I were concerned about physical evidence supporting spiritual topics. Spiritual to me is the source of inner strength, it is the purpose and joy of life, it is the value in relationships, it is the guts of peace, the heart of love. Making physical evidences relevant to spiritual reality seems akin to making insect activity relevant to fine art review.

    #268558
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I view the BOM as a 19th century revelation but I find the anachronism argument to be a poor one.

    Let’s suppose that Nephi had a printing press or a cotton gin. That wouldn’t prove anything. God could have inspired Nephi to build a machine similar to this. Nephi could have called his invention “alakamzoo,” but the term “Alakamzoo” would be meaningless to us as far as us having any idea what Nephi had invented. Then JS being familiar with similar machines from the 19th century and knowing that we call them printing presses and cotton gins could have inserted the most likely terminology to be understood by modern readers.

    But perhaps nobody has ever found the remnants of a printing press or cotton gin. That too doesn’t prove anything. Perhaps it was a unique item that long since decayed to dust. Perhaps it was taken into heaven after its purpose was fulfilled. Perhaps the knowledge was lost when the people fractioned and died out.

    So the presence of what seems to be anachronisms doesn’t add anything compelling for me, particularly in a story where we have God dropping off heavenly artifacts (like the Liahona) and giving directions for building specific items (like Nephi’s boat).

    #268559
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Again, it comes down to faith because no discovery will definitively prove the Book of Mormon is true or false (until the Second Coming?). However, it should get some credit where it is due.

    Many people on this site have mentioned they are, or have been, concerned about anachronisms, including myself. Showing that many of them are invalid is helpful to me and I hope others can benefit.

    #268560
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Sure thing Shawn, they are interesting discussions and it’s great when they prove helpful. :thumbup:

    #268561
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hey, I’m sorry if that sounded sharp. I typed that hurriedly and didn’t mean it that way.

    #268562
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Shawn wrote:

    Again, it comes down to faith because no discovery will definitively prove the Book of Mormon is true or false (until the Second Coming?). However, it should get some credit where it is due.

    Many people on this site have mentioned they are, or have been, concerned about anachronisms, including myself. Showing that many of them are invalid is helpful to me and I hope others can benefit.


    I think it is fairly obvious the BofM is a work of 19th century fiction anachronisms aside. Also I do not think it is the responsibility of the doubter to prove it is wrong. It is the believer who must prove it is actual history.

    #268563
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Cadence wrote:

    …I do not think it is the responsibility of the doubter to prove it is wrong. It is the believer who must prove it is actual history.

    I don’t know about that; as far as I’m concerned no one should have to prove anything when it comes to most personal beliefs. It is only when you expect others to believe it as well that trying to shift the burden of proof to favor your own preferences will not necessarily be very convincing to those that already doubt your claims. So even DNA and other evidence strongly suggesting that the Native Americans came to the New World through the Bering Strait long before the supposed time of Adam rather than 600 BC does not effectively prove the BoM false to many that already want to believe in it because they can always claim that maybe JS misunderstood his own translation and get into all kinds of explanations like the Limited Geography Theory.

    Before I ever heard the word anachronism or read any so-called anti-Mormon material I remember reading about the Lamanites being given dark skin by God as a curse and thinking that sounds like something I would expect some 19th century white American to come up with. At the time I shrugged it off and mostly forgot about it but now I look at that and other ideas like sexual sins being next to murder and I would actually rather view it as 19th century fiction than something that God was directly responsible for. Maybe there are many good and possibly even inspired teachings in the BoM as well but my point is that accepting this as literally what God wanted us to believe from beginning to end basically creates a whole new set of potential problems to deal with to the point that I don’t really want to believe it is what the Church claims anymore even if I thought it was possible to restore the faith in it that I had before.

    #268564
    Anonymous
    Guest

    It is obvious to me that the Book of Mormon did NOT come from the mind of anyone living in the 19th century.

    #268565
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Shawn wrote:

    It is obvious to me that the Book of Mormon did NOT come from the mind of anyone living in the 19th century.


    There is plenty of evidence that it did if you care to research it. If you choose to believe it is what it claims then I think that is moe an issue of faith or belief but not something that is verifiable.

    #268566
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Cadence wrote:

    Shawn wrote:

    It is obvious to me that the Book of Mormon did NOT come from the mind of anyone living in the 19th century.


    There is plenty of evidence that it did if you care to research it. If you choose to believe it is what it claims then I think that is moe an issue of faith or belief but not something that is verifiable.


    I agree it is a matter of faith. No discovery will definitively prove the Book of Mormon is true or false.

    Besides the spiritual manifestations I have had, I just don’t see any way it could have come from the mind of Joseph or any of his friends, even if they had used sources like the Manuscript Story or View of the Hebrews. I wouldn’t mind researching what you have in mind, though. Send me a PM.

    #268567
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I agree 100% with you, Shawn. Whether the Book of Mormon is true or not, depends on faith.

    #268568
    Anonymous
    Guest
    #268569
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Shawn wrote:

    I just don’t see any way it could have come from the mind of Joseph

    I take as a given that a certain amount of “the mind of Joseph” ended up on the page in the BOM. The translation process reportedly involved effort of both the mind and the heart. How much of this was actively directed by Joseph (either consiously or unconsiously) and how much of it was God directed (with Joseph merely as an instrument) is where I find room for faith. 50/50? :think:

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