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I need help. I love this gospel. There are many beautiful doctrines. I’ve had some of my most meaningful experiences through the gospel. It has shaped my entire life and my world view, who I am. I can’t deny that I’ve had “impressions” that seem to come from outside me, that I would not have known on my own. They have seemed to be evidences that God exists, and is mindful of me. So I could say I have a “testimony.”
Beyond that, there’s not much else I can testify is true. My heart breaks. I want this church to be true, but I can’t seem to make things add up. I can absolutely testify that the church is “good.” But “true?” Not so much.
I really struggle with the need for a restoration, for the priesthood, for ordinances. I see some communal good from each. But necessary? That’s harder for me. I’m struggling with “why does any of it matter?” My personal experience of God has been kind of universalist. Mormonism is my spiritual language. But why is it any more valid than other spiritual languages? “Because the prophet says so” doesn’t do it for me. If other religions are just as valid, than why on earth do we do baptisms, endowments, etc for everyone? I really don’t get the whole priesthood authority concept.
I can’t square much of what the church teaches with my intellect. I can’t go back and “unlearn” things. I can’t seem to move forward with faith intact. I feel rather hopeless about it. I guess the main thing is that I no longer trust myself to distinguish “the Holy Ghost” from emotion, and I don’t trust my feelings as a way of knowing. I’m stuck and hurting tonight. Help.
I know some people resolve this by saying, in effect, “a lot of what we teach at church is nonsense, but I stay for the % that is good.” Others redefine all kinds of things to make sense (even when our interpretations are far from the mainstream understanding.) I’ve done both. I’m tired of the mental games though. I’m also tired of being a heretic. How have some (like Bill for example), managed to stay firmly grounded in the gospel AND accept orthodox beliefs? I’m truly curious. It seems an impossibility.
Hi Thankful. I think you expressed yourself very well and I relate to all you have said. I am right where you are at so I’m sorry I don’t have any sage words of advice. I have hope that things will get better. As I have given myself permission to step away from my foundational beliefs so I can look at them objectively, I am starting to feel better about the fact that I don’t know anything and that’s okay. I just want to say that you are not alone. Thankful, didn’t you kind of answer your own question? You said you’ve got a testimony of the Gospel, and that Mormonism is the spiritual language that you speak. I think I relate a lot to that. The rituals, ordinances, etc. that we perform have a symbolic, tribal quality to them, even if you don’t believe they’re absolutely necessary for salvation. I’m right there with you. I don’t know for sure that all of the dead souls we do temple ordinances for really need those ordinances performed, but I still love taking the youth to the temple and doing baptisms with them. It’s an initiation into the temple-cult of Mormonism (and I use “cult” in a non-pejorative term). So while I may have doubt about the eternal efficacy of temple and ordinance rituals, I think they have a cultural, tribal and symbolic value. It’s a lifelong process. This is what keeps it interesting! Someone once made the analogy that the church is like our operating system. Some people are on Macs, some are PCs. But we still determine which programs we like and what we do with them. I love Mormonism; I love some aspects of the LDS Church, especially many of the members; I tolerate some aspects of the LDS Church culture and current doctrine; I am Mormon by birth and inclination; I am LDS by choice, after having considered all the other alternatives. I don’t know if it will help you, but I have built my own faith in what I call “the muddle in the middle” – and it is precious to me, because it is mine. The Church is moving toward a more open acceptance of that process for its members, as evidenced by so much of what Pres. Uchtdorf teaches, and I have hope that it will continue to do so.
Thankful wrote:My personal experience of God has been kind of universalist. Mormonism is my spiritual language. But why is it any more valid than other spiritual languages?
To the individual – it is when it works, it isn’t when it doesn’t. I don’t think it needs to be any more complicated than that.
Kumahito wrote:Thankful, didn’t you kind of answer your own question? You said you’ve got a testimony of the Gospel, and that Mormonism is the spiritual language that you speak. I think I relate a lot to that. The rituals, ordinances, etc. that we perform have a symbolic, tribal quality to them, even if you don’t believe they’re absolutely necessary for salvation. I’m right there with you. I don’t know for sure that all of the dead souls we do temple ordinances for really need those ordinances performed, but I still love taking the youth to the temple and doing baptisms with them. It’s an initiation into the temple-cult of Mormonism (and I use “cult” in a non-pejorative term). So while I may have doubt about the eternal efficacy of temple and ordinance rituals, I think they have a cultural, tribal and symbolic value.
Yup – I think it just hurts to be on an individual journey when there has been such comfort in certainty and community for so long. It would be so nice to go back to the “I’m a Mormon. I know it, live it, love it.” days. This individualized faith feels to tenuois and isolating. I do believe that it gets better and that some of us can find great fulfillment in this process. But I don’t believe that this will work for everyone and it sure can be tiring to maintain. For me there is no going back – only forward. This is my path and I must take the next step. I believe that God supports me in this.
I’ve been thinking these kinds of things too, wondering why life is set up the way it is, why some things, we are told, are necessary. Yesterday at church they were talking about all the things Joseph Smith restored. It made me wonder could he have made all that up? and why would he? But then I also wonder, what about Mohamed? Did he really have an angel tell him the things he claims? Maybe it is possible to make up a religion. Regardless, the modern church is very different from Joseph Smith’s time, and I can definitely see how the current church could be made up from what Joseph Smith started. So I don’t know what to think about it all. It doesn’t seem to be something that you can understand or make sense of with logic. But you mention you can’t trust feeling the spirit, so that doesn’t leave you with much to go off of. This is the same for me. It is so frustrating at times! Quote:It is so frustrating at times!
Yup. Growth through individual choice often is.
Thankful, Thankful wrote:I need help.
I can’t square much of what the church teaches with my intellect. I can’t go back and “unlearn” things. I can’t seem to move forward with faith intact. I feel rather hopeless about it.
I SO know what you are going through with this. I have tried to figure things out for about seven years now. I got to the point where I was going to throw it all away and leave the church. Then I found support from others that have gone through the same thing. I wish I could give you the answers you are looking for. I wish they existed. The hard reality is that everyone needs to decide for themselves how to handle this. For years I thought I could study my way out of my doubts and disbeliefs. This is not possible. If anything, a scientific approach to this dilemma makes it worse. I’m not suggesting one turn a blind eye to the issues that cause a trial of faith. I’m just saying that there is no clear answer. There are three issues that seem to cause people the most angst in this situation:
1: We learn in the church is that there is a “right” and a “wrong” answer to things. We are looking for something or someone to tell us what the right answer is. Once we abandon the idea that we have to make a right choice, or that there is a right or wrong way to deal with this, things become a little easier.
2: We learn to look to higher authority and leaders for answers. Problem is, that even though they are trying their best, they don’t have the answers.
3: We learn that the gospel is either “true” or “false”. When we find issues that no longer fit in our belief system we find ourselves having to make the decision “Should I stay or should I go now?” There is another way. There is a way to come to terms with this, but it requires redrafting one’s spiritual priorities and beliefs. This can be extremely hard to do especially when family is involved. The decision to change ones belief not only effects self but how your piece of the puzzle fits into others lives.
The point that finally helped me was to focus on my spirituality without any religious organizations attached. Simple principles like be kind to others, treat others like you would want to be treated, forgive others, think less about how others should be acting to make me happy and more on how can I change to add happiness to others lives, etc.
Dont know if this will help, but don’t give up. Find someone who you can talk to that is nonjudgemental and sympathetic.
Best Wishes
+ 1 Ottozilch! Fantastic initial post! Hope to hear more from you. Thanks everyone for your wisdom and kind words. I appreciate it so much. 😮 )I am at the other end of the spectrum. I am relieved the church is not what it claims. All the ordinances and jumping through hoops to please God is tiresome. I like the friends I have there but the rest I could give up in a moment.
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