All or nothing?

This is from the Daily Quotes Post Mackay11 started.

quote=”mackay11″]This is a good one from B.H. Roberts:

“While the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is established for the instruction of men; and it is one of God’s instrumentalities for making known the truth yet he is not limited to that institution for such purposes, neither in time nor place. God raises up wise men and prophets here and there among all the children of men, of their own tongue and nationality, speaking to them through means that they can comprehend. … All the great teachers are servants of God; among all nations and in all ages. They are inspired men, appointed to instruct God’s children according to the conditions in the midst of which he finds them.”

http://www.lds.org/ensign/2000/08/a-latter-day-saint-perspective-on-muhammad?lang=eng[/quote]

I believe the answer is that there are many paths to God. I don’t believe this church is the only path. That just doesn’t pass the common sense test for me for many reasons. It works for some as prescribed, but not all.

I’m allowing my conscience to be my guide as I purposefully make choices to live my life in a way that I hope is pleasing to God and that brings me happiness. I don’t believe that God is the author of confusion. That gets added by well intentioned people in many religions including ours and that part just doesn’t work for me anymore.

It seems that so many people on these boards say, “We can pick and choose what we want to believe.”

I think we believe what we believe, we can try to deny it but I don’t think we can simply choose to change it significantly. What I hear along the “buffet” talk is we can choose to focus on what works for us, we can enjoy what we see as good and don’t focus on the rest.

As an aside, I think this applies to anything in life…I can pick my marriage apart to the point that I have little left and want to leave…I can pick the government apart to the point that I know no allegiance. How can one go down that road…picking things apart, and still come out okay?

I think you are right about that, and that is a main reason I think it is more helpful to focus on the good and try to ignore what doesn’t work for us.

Second, if the Savior restored His gospel…and He knew that in just a few decades, it would be corrupt, why wouldn’t He have put more “safeguards” into place? I mean, it seems so silly to restore something…expect it to last hundreds of years…but then see it fall apart shortly after restoration.

I guess I see it more as a restoration in process. I don’t think it was ever complete or perfect and then fell apart. I think the “original” limitations and imperfections come to light over time, and allow for improvement or change which is a part of the original and ongoing “restoration” process.

It seems that so many people on these boards say, “We can pick and choose what we want to believe.”

Someone suggested that JS restored the church, but that it quickly fell apart and that when the Savior comes again, He will have to put things in order for the last time.

First…if we start picking and choosing what to believe (or even who to believe), then we don’t have much of a religion, do we? I mean, golly, the more we start taking it apart, the less we end up with.

I think you are not referring to anything I wrote, but I recently posted this:

I think Jesus gave the blueprint for His church to Joseph Smith and granted him authority to build it. Joseph and those who came after him have attempted to build it. Because we are all human, the church has not been built to exact specifications, but the contract with the Lord is still in force. A lot of things than have been taught by leaders are not true.

For what it’s worth, maybe it could be looked at as an “all or nothing” proposal in that we can take all of what is true and reject the rest. While I wrote “A lot of things than have been taught by leaders are not true,” I believe there is more that is true and we are left with a lot of religion after picking through it. This leaves us in the same boat, though – we still have to pick and choose what is true.

Second, if the Savior restored His gospel…and He knew that in just a few decades, it would be corrupt, why wouldn’t He have put more “safeguards” into place? I mean, it seems so silly to restore something…expect it to last hundreds of years…but then see it fall apart shortly after restoration.

I don’t see it as a sitution where the gospel was perfectly restored in its fulness and then it was corrupted in a short time. Rather, the gospel has been restored in steps, with imperfect people bungling it here and there. Even with safeguards in place, there will be some level of corruption as long as people are involved, but this can still be the church of Christ – the contract with the Lord is still in force.

Despite the mistakes of mortals, we can embrace the entire Gospel of Jesus Christ – the Gospel of repentance, baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost. The Gospel itself gives us the key to determining what is the Gospel truth: the gift of the Holy Ghost. This is how I see it.

I don’t see it as a situation where the gospel was perfectly restored in its fulness and then it was corrupted in a short time. Rather, the gospel has been restored in steps, with imperfect people bungling it here and there. Even with safeguards in place, there will be some level of corruption as long as people are involved, but this can still be the church of Christ – the contract with the Lord is still in force.

Brothers and sisters, this is a divine work in process, with the manifestations and blessings of it abounding in every direction, so please don’t hyperventilate if from time to time issues arise that need to be examined, understood, and resolved. They do and they will. In this Church, what we know will always trump what we do not know. And remember, in this world, everyone is to walk by faith.

So be kind regarding human frailty—your own as well as that of those who serve with you in a Church led by volunteer, mortal men and women. Except in the case of His only perfect Begotten Son, imperfect people are all God has ever had to work with. That must be terribly frustrating to Him, but He deals with it. So should we. And when you see imperfection, remember that the limitation is not in the divinity of the work. As one gifted writer has suggested, when the infinite fulness is poured forth, it is not the oil’s fault if there is some loss because finite vessels can’t quite contain it all. Those finite vessels include you and me, so be patient and kind and forgiving.

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/print/2013/04/lord-i-believe?lang=eng

I was first introduced to this concept through a college professor of my older sister’s. She taught that the church is like earthen/clay vessels. They contain the living water but they are not the living water. They are repositories. This college professor was later excommunicated as part of the September 6 for being an editor for a book that contained a selection of feminist Mormon essays. The church has come a long way since then. Sometimes today’s heresy is tomorrow’s GC address.

I like what Ray said. Everyone, in any organization, has their own areas of emphasis. Everyone is at different levels too. After I was baptized, I had a terrible time with JS. I was going off general spiritual feelings I should join the church and really did not have a testimony of JS at all. Even up until my faith crisis, the idea of geneology and going to the temple did not really excite me after all the initial hype wore off.

Yet I functioned as a leader for many decades.

Just teach the parts you can teach with integrity. You can word things in such a way that you don’t offend people.

I find it easier for me to believe nothing about the church as opposed to trying to believe things that there is no way to verify. I could be wrong and God may set me straight someday but until then it seems to much energy to try and believe all or part. There is A much bigger world than Mormonism out there to get involved in. If we spend our life trying to nail Jell-O to the wall so to speak, we will wake up one day and our life will of passed us by

QA, I think the key is not that we CAN pick and choose, but that we DO, every single one of us does. We are not Cafeteria Mormons. We are cafeteria humans!

I’m writing that down!