Sorry more questions & my experience today

I have never once heard anyone in the LDS Church, including missionaries, explain our beliefs about God in that way. Not once. We are not monotheistic in the classic sense of the word, but we aren’t polytheistic in the classic sense of that word either.

I’m just thinking that if that is what “started” everything why aren’t you suppose to talk about it?

There is almost nothing we aren’t supposed to talk about, and that certainly isn’t one of those things.

Before anyone else responds, just out of curiosity, where did you read the description of our belief in God / gods?

As to baptism, missionaries always ask people to commit to be baptized when they feel they should, and people often are asked to set a baptism date. It’s a way to motivate people to think and pray seriously about it – but I know people who have been baptized in a couple of weeks after a powerful spiritual experience and other who have waited for years before they were baptized. The correct timing is whatever the correct timing is for each person. The missionaries shouldn’t insist if you tell them you aren’t ready to commit yet but will keep thinking and praying about it.

Baptism is seen as multiple things, one of which is officially joining the Church. Everyone who wants to join the LDS Church is baptized, regardless of how many times they have been baptized before. In fact, someone can be baptized into the LDS Church, but if they formally leave for some reason (serious sin leading to excommunication or personal choice) and then want to join after that at some point, even they will be baptized – even though they have been baptized in the LDS Church in the past. There are no exceptions.

The War in Heaven is standard Mormon belief, and there are references (allusions, at the very least) to it in the Bible.

The basic belief in the Godhead (which we use instead of the Trinity) also is straight from the Bible, based mostly in the Gospels and the teachings of Jesus, with supporting passages from the rest of the Bible. Personally, I don’t think there is any way whatsoever that someone can read the Bible with a clean slate, no preconceptions, and come up with the classic Trinity construct – and there are other Christian denominations that teach that the Trinity are one in purpose but not in actual being. Mormons are in no way unique in that regard, so I wouldn’t reject that doctrine without a look at the Bible itself. The distinct and different personages of the Father and the Son (and the Holy Ghost) is clear and unambiguous there – and all references to the Godhead being one are explained easily as not meaning “Being”.

I wrote a paper once in a class at the Harvard Divinity School (not exactly a bastion of Mormon theology) about that topic, and I got an “A” on it. The grader said the reasoning was sound and could not be refuted from the Bible, but that I better not teach it if I wanted a job as a minister, since it wasn’t consistent with what the major denominations would accept from the pulpit. He had no idea at the time that I was Mormon.

Mormons believe in many gods, but it is clear they worship God the Father, and believe that Jesus Christ is his literal son. And that mankind will be saved through the atonement of Jesus Christ. Thems are the facts.

That is pretty basic Christian belief.

Yeah, they do teach that all people can become gods…and should strive to become god-like.

Personally, I don’t believe in a God with a white beard. I believe God is everywhere, including within each creation….including us…and that he/she will reveal itself to man according to our own knowledge and need. I’m a panothesist. Perhaps even pagan.

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serene, your comment about Jesus being satan’s brother reminded me of an experience i had. While I was living in india, when someone came up to me and asked, “you’re a christian, aren’t you?”

Of course I answered “yes”.

then he said, “how can you christians believe in cannabalism?”

I responded, “where did you hear that? no, we don’t believe in cannabalism.”

He said, “yes you do. I read that every week, you eat the flesh and blood of Jesus.”

“no, that is symbolic…we don’t believe that it is actually flesh and blood.”

“but didn’t your master say this is flesh indeed, and blood indeed? as well, aren’t there christians that say that the bread turns into flesh?”

“well, yes, catholics talk about that, but i hardly think many actually believe it.”

“but still, why have a cannabalistic symbol?”

“well it represents that we partake in the sacrifice of christ, who died for us.”

“yes, i understand that. but how does eating flesh and blood signify that one is participating in the sacrifice?… except maybe as a perpetrator of the sacrifice. cannabals often ate their enemies…does this mean you are christ’s enemy?”

i don’t recall how this conversation ended, i think i changed the subject to why krishna ordered arjuna to kill his teachers and cousins… or maybe, just maybe, my hindu friend was trying to teach me that symbols often lose their meaning when we take them literally and out of context.

Jesus had all sorts of people come up and misinterpret who He was. Nicodemus famously couldn’t get the “born again” symbol. he asked if he needed to get back into his mother’s womb. Scripture is full of symbol and metaphor…war in heaven…angels being cast out…lucifer, the light of the morning being fallen… scripture represents man’s attempt to define principles of the divine for which we have no words. To take scriptures literally is to miss the point… spriptures and stories point to an ultimate reality, like fingers pointing to the moon. when we concentrate on the fingers, we fail to see the moon.

The LDS church points to the ultimate reality, as do many other paths. i have tried many paths, but i find that the LDS path is true for me…it is my path, my people. maybe it is for you, or maybe not…only you can tell. the way you can tell is simply to see if it speaks to you. sure, there will be voices on one side that say this is the one true church. on the other will be those who equate mormons as the antichrist. the truth rests in the Middle, and that is the Way i try to follow.

serene,

it is never easy to embark on a new path. missionaries are more or less wired to challenge you to be baptized, but you should not commit before you are ready. i believe we have a guide in our lives. some call this the holy spirit, others something else. i choose to call it the god within, a separate, inspired presence from my ego self that can give me answers to prayers and decisions. whatever we call it, we LDS do believe that we are entitled to our own personal revelation.

in doctrine and covenants 8 and 9, and in Alma 32, Joseph Smith outlines how this revelation works: it is revealed to our mind (intellect) and our hearts (feelings), after we have (1) studied something out, (2) put it to the test, (3) meditated upon it, (4) prayed about it, and (5) recognized that answers take time. This sounds like work, but it really isn’t always hard. the important thing for you to know is that if the missionaries what you to commit based upon a single good feeling, the reality is that you haven’t studied it out, gotten to know the bigger picture, and really allowed revelation to work with you. When you are ready, and if this church is for you, you will know it, provided you do so with an open mind and open eyes and ears.

Thus, the answer to their baptismal challenge should be an honest expression: “thank you for the invitation, and when I am ready, i will let you know.”

I was the Ward Mission Leader around five years ago, and knew, pretty much, all I know now about the sordid details and fantastic/mythologized origins of mormonism. When I taught investigators, i wanted to make sure they knew, in an appropriate way, the fact that our church, like so many others, has challenging origin stories. this is what i mean by open eyes and ears. No investigator dropped learning because of what i taught, and we had many members come into the church, and they stayed in.

when i say “open mind”– the church is going to ask you to accept that a very human individual, Joseph Smith, was indeed a prophet. at times, this will logically make no sense, because we expect our heros to be perfect, or very close to that. Instead, if we can find the authentic Joseph Smith, a flawed human who had deep insight into the divine, then we can also accept that a flawed institution, the Church, can be a framework for practicing the divine in our daily lives and as a community.

i tried to live without this community, as i wayfared through many faith traditions and found them all flawed. i came back into this faith tradition, because it allows me the opportunity for meaningful exploration of the Way, and the ability to serve others. i find this community to be essential for my daily walk along the Way — but i do not mistake the community and church to be The WAY. it only points: the walking is up to me, and as Chuang Tzu said, the Way is made by walking on it.

Serene,

Thank you for your questions and providing me with so much to think about. No offense at all to me! Love them!

I also appreciate the answers. I have so much writing to do. I keep looking on here and other sites to tell me what to believe now.. but only I know which path will be for me.

Did you just say butthead.. potty mouth!! Just kiddin’

It is an exciting world/yet a little bit scary for me to start fresh and rebuild my beliefs to who I really am. Thanks for the example. What a concept!