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I’ve spent the last couple of years with my wife and kids living in another country. I used to be in a small UK branch where I was one of the ‘stalwarts.’ I was the BP or on the presidency for about 7 years. I was often the one who would give the talk/teach the lesson/run the meetings (all on the same day if needed).
It’s a somewhat liberal minded congregation (as is the tendency among UK LDS), but I was a very strong believer in the history and origins and took the “only true and living” position literally and seriously.
I’ll go back later this year a very different person with changes perspectives and a substantial faith transition. All of it happened while living abroad. I think the changed environment was part of what allowed me to open my mind, explore our claims/history and consider my place in a big, diverse world (travelling around Asia has that effect!)
I’ll have a wonderful BP, a very close friend, to return to. Non-judgemental and focused on people not programs. Some of the members there are among my best friends. My family are also close (but another stake).
So here’s my dilemma. They will be looking forward to getting me back on the “team.” I’ve already had emails saying how much they’re looking forward to serving with me. I’m genuinely looking forward to serving with them too. But they’re not getting the ‘mackay’ that left. I won’t be able to stand up and say “I know.” I won’t be happy driving things forward because the prophet/stake president/BP said so. Some things I don’t believe any more. Some I now actively disbelieve.
These people are my close friends. They know me too well for me to put on a front. I also don’t want to hurt them or shock them. I’m not sure I can ‘be myself’ and also be who they are expecting. In fact, I’m certain I can’t.
I welcome your thoughts.
Be yourself – just don’t share all of your new perspectives. Say, “I believe,” instead of, “I know.”
Teach the principles of the Gospel, and model acceptance of everyone and true charity.
It’s what I do, and it absolutely is possible.
I would support you if you were my BP. If the church has any hope at all, it will be because of leaders like yourself.
Once again, morality is doing what is right regardless of what you are told. Obedience is doing what you’re told regardless of what is right.
That applies to LDS church as well…maybe especially to the church.
As you said in another thread…Don’t be afraid to do what is right…and just let the consequences follow.
Good luck.
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I think that you can even say I hope instead of I believe or I know. There are things that I don’t believe and if I don’t believe I will not say that I do. I have even said that there are many things I don’t believe but I can’t prove that they are not true any more than some else can prove that they are true but that I encourage others to go with what their heart and head tells them. If they really are your friends then they will love and accept you for who you are and what you now believe. If they don’t then it is their loss. Amen to all of the above my experience…
My last 3 bishops have all known to varying degrees about the state of my faith. One has known in detail but all have known that half the time I`m far from sure there`s even a God out there. Most of the ward know I`m somewhat liberal (even by UK standards) and most of my family aren`t quite sure what to make of me either.
Yet I`ve never been without a calling, often holding multiple callings. I`m currently in ward leadership. I believe I am accepted because I am willing to serve, am trusted to teach and because I try to practice extending charity and a non judgemental attitude towards others. And I more or less keep my main concerns out of the public domain, only sharing or expressing them in certain situations. That final one can be considered a compromise, and to some extent it is, but it is one I am willing to make for a number of reasons. Especially considering the fact that whatever I feel about my current faith position I know that it will change, as it constantly does.
I rarely bear testimony and when I do I always use the word “hope” and, given that I do have hope, I find that entirely genuine.
I have found that if we are honest and respectful towards others the things we consider to be gaping chasms between us can become insignificant compared to the friendship and charity that draws us together.
Besides, having grown up in a number of small struggling UK branches I`ve yet to see anyone sidelined who was willing to pick up broom and join the ranks.
🙂 mackay11 wrote:
They will be looking forward to getting me back on the “team.” I’ve already had emails saying how much they’re looking forward to serving with me. I’m genuinely looking forward to serving with them too. But they’re not getting the ‘mackay’ that left.The only thing that comes to my mind is not to assume that you’re getting the same “whoever” back that
youleft. Even if your friends in the UK haven’t had full-fledged crises, they’ve been living life with all its joys and heartaches, and their faith has been reshaped at least somewhat, also. I hope it goes well and that you’ll share here. Good luck!
Thanks all. I have to say one thing ‘I know…’ ‘I know that my association with the great folks at staylds has made a huge difference to my life.’
I have to remind myself of two things:
– My wife stopped attending in UK, they all still love her to bits.
– In the unit I attend now I’ve stopped saying “I know” to the unknown (I instead talk of Alma 32 knowledge or belief), I ask sometimes ask awkward questions or give the ‘moderate view’ in priesthood/SS and yet they have me doing two callings and were planning to call me as YM pres a few months ago (I told them I would, but on limited hours due to family/work commitments).
So I guess I’m over-worrying. They’re a good group of people. I have to remind myself that the BP is also the man who came out with this peach of a line in a meeting: “I’m less interested in our members being active Mormons and more interested in them being dedicated Christians.”
Sounds like a great BP. My advice:
1. Serve as much as you feel you can.
2. Say only what you feel you can say with integrity.
3. Support and nourish the notion of helping people be good Christians rather than good Mormons.
4. Keep your unorthodox concerns to yourself lest you get ostracized.
Good luck!
McKay – Have you listened to my podcast episode -True and Living Church = http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com/2013/06/11/true-and-living-church/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com/2013/06/11/true-and-living-church/ I think the basic doctrines of the Church are beautiful and empowering. Then all the McConkie, Fielding nonsense filled in the periphery. The Periphery sucks but it was never true. Once we rid ourselves of it, the Church has plenty of room to be what it “Actually” claims
DBMormon wrote:McKay – Have you listened to my podcast episode -True and Living Church =
http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com/2013/06/11/true-and-living-church/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com/2013/06/11/true-and-living-church/ I think the basic doctrines of the Church are beautiful and empowering. Then all the McConkie, Fielding nonsense filled in the periphery. The Periphery sucks but it was never true. Once we rid ourselves of it, the Church has plenty of room to be what it “Actually” claims
Would you be a little more specific about the “nonsense” and the parts that were never true? Thanks.
that wasn’t supposed to be at this thread The tragedy is that the dogmatic approach to church ‘truth’ became the norm. I’m grateful to be moving back to a branch and BP that doesn’t support that type of dogmatism.
Good luck with the conference DB. I won’t be able to attend but I appreciate what you do.
GBSmith wrote:DBMormon wrote:McKay – Have you listened to my podcast episode -True and Living Church =
http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com/2013/06/11/true-and-living-church/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com/2013/06/11/true-and-living-church/ I think the basic doctrines of the Church are beautiful and empowering. Then all the McConkie, Fielding nonsense filled in the periphery. The Periphery sucks but it was never true. Once we rid ourselves of it, the Church has plenty of room to be what it “Actually” claims
Would you be a little more specific about the “nonsense” and the parts that were never true? Thanks.
age of the earth, overstating the case for true and living, stepping into what appropriate intimacy between husband and wife is, venturing into declaring doctrine on evolution, stating definitives on where the BOM took place, ect…. The nonsense, age of the earth, no playing rummy becasue facecards are evil, no eating rumcake, ect…
DBMormon wrote:GBSmith wrote:DBMormon wrote:McKay – Have you listened to my podcast episode -True and Living Church =
http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com/2013/06/11/true-and-living-church/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com/2013/06/11/true-and-living-church/ I think the basic doctrines of the Church are beautiful and empowering. Then all the McConkie, Fielding nonsense filled in the periphery. The Periphery sucks but it was never true. Once we rid ourselves of it, the Church has plenty of room to be what it “Actually” claims
Would you be a little more specific about the “nonsense” and the parts that were never true? Thanks.
age of the earth, overstating the case for true and living, stepping into what appropriate intimacy between husband and wife is, venturing into declaring doctrine on evolution, stating definitives on where the BOM took place, ect…. The nonsense, age of the earth, no playing rummy becasue facecards are evil, no eating rumcake, ect…
I expect that up until about twenty years ago from JS on down there wasn’t a GA or prophet that didn’t preach or endorse what you refer to. The intimacy stuff was mostly SWK and I think NET. Definitives on the locale of the BoM was just conventional wisdom. I guess I thought you were referring to some point of doctrine or something. As far as the periphery goes it will always get filled in and every so often it will be changed by someone who has the answer(s) and who can attract a following.
A lot goes into this. Leaders take what a previously leader said and feel safe addining to it or sharing it in a way that they endorse, not really reasoning out the end conclusion of their logic. For instance, The D&C says that the Church when formed in 1830 that that was 1830 years since the birth of our LORD. Now the heading wasn’t unusual as that heading had been given by Joseph scribes on more then one revelation. But leaders took it and ran with it supposing it was Joseph direction that Christ birthday was April 6th.
One thing turns into another and next thing you know we all suppose this the case. Once one strips away the nonsense we see that this wasn’t Joseph’s idea at all and that the scribe added it. It may be Christ’s B-Day but it is only a 1/365 chance
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