CS Lewis on teetotalism

Interesting points, especially this one:

…Apart from the more serious objection (that Our Lord Himself turned water into wine and made wine the medium of the only rite He imposed on all His followers), it is so provincial (what I believe you people call ‘small town’). Don’t they realize that Christianity arose in the Mediterranean world where, then as now, wine was as much a part of the normal diet as bread?

It sounds like the temperance movement was originally supported by most popular churches in America but most of them left this pet cause behind after the prohibition experiment failed. In our case, it seems like it is much easier to add new rules or routines to the list whenever they sound like a good idea to enough of the top leaders than it is to openly discard any of them in part because of the idea of the Church being guided by revelation and the expectation that prophets will supposedly never lead us astray. So over time some of these established traditions have ended up being interpreted as set-in-stone God-given commandments as if they can never be changed and are more important than how we treat people.

C.S. Lewis did a good job of pointing out some of the recurring problems with the expectation of complete abstinence especially the judgmental and intolerant attitudes toward presumed sinners. It was also interesting that he associated teetotalism with Islam more than Christianity. To me the LDS Church really does look more like Islam in some ways than most other churches of similar size or larger with the supercharged level of strictness and zeal about submitting to the supposed absolute will of God and some of the peer pressure and groupthink involved. For example, when I wonder why most of these people are still devout Muslims the general impression I get is that the number one reason is simply that there are typically other Muslims around them that would disapprove if they disagree with some of these inherited ideas and the same basic thing is common in the Church as well. That’s fine if you want to openly acknowledge that’s how we want it to work and try to make a case to explain why the end results are worth it but in our case it looks more like an unintended haphazard development rather than what anyone (including God) was specifically aiming for.

I read a few ‘Islam 101’ websites a while back (written by Muslims, not their critics). We certainly do have more in common with them than most other religions. Dan Peterson has written extensively about this.

It’s ironic that many Utahns are right-wing and intuitively anti-Islam based on the whole ‘anti-terror’ campaign.

To the OP… I taught 10-11yo primary kids the WOW of wisdom last week (have been covering the class and my daughter’s in it). I pointed out that the Bible and BoM don’t contain the commandment and Jesus drank wine, that it was originally given as guidance not commandment but was later made a stronger requirement and then focused on the health benefits of the revelation.

I’m ok not drinking alcohol in principle. But I often wish we didn’t have to be draconian about it to protect ‘the weakest of the saints.’ If everyone could live without being spoon-fed then it would make such a difference. Beer and wine smell funny to me, but I like the idea of an occasional rum and coke and Baileys looks like grown-up milkshake!

Problem is, ‘moderation/sparingly’ is not a concept many Mormons can deal with. I’m sure there will be plenty of Mormon BBQs this summer where the only concept of ‘spare’ will be the ribs.

I’m sure there will be plenty of Mormon BBQs this summer where the only concept of ‘spare’ will be the ribs.

Hahahaha, that’s the funniest thing I’ve read in a long, long time! 😆

I’m a hypocrite though… I’ve been invited to a texan BBQ joint tonight to help my American friends celebrate independence from the… uh… brits. I’ll not be having the salad!

To me the LDS Church really does look more like Islam in some ways than most other churches of similar size or larger with the supercharged level of strictness and zeal about submitting to the supposed absolute will of God and some of the peer pressure and groupthink that seem to drive them. For example, when I wonder why most of these people are still devout Muslims the general impression I get is that the number one reason is simply that there are typically other Muslims around them that will disapprove if they disagree with some of these inherited ideas and the same basic thing is common in the Church as well. That’s fine if you want to openly acknowledge that’s how we want it to work and try to make a case to explain why the end results are worth it but in our case it looks more like an unintended haphazard development rather than what anyone (including God) was specifically aiming for.

I imagine you would get a LOT of push-back for saying this, but I think it’s true.

I’m sure many would say the most important thing to them is that they actually believe in this and they are happy to do what they see as being right and I’m not saying they don’t honestly feel this way or that sincere belief isn’t a major factor as well. But which came first in most cases, the belief that this is right or other people strongly encouraging them to believe and do these things? To me the answer is obvious and it only makes sense that if someone is around others that already act like they should believe and do specific things then that will make it much more likely that they will end up accepting this as normal and become accustomed to it as well.

If the only goal you care about is to root out evil as defined by your accepted prophets then I guess this approach makes sense as long as it works to some extent. However, one problem with this is that in Mormon theology there are also the basic ideas of moral agency to make real and meaningful choices being extremely important and that life is supposedly a test. So if it is actually easier for many Mormons to obey the WoW once they are married to another Mormon than it would be to disobey due to fear of disapproval from their spouse then what does this token obedience really prove if it is extremely inconvenient to do otherwise? Also, the fact that Church’s primary hero figures Jesus and Joseph Smith both reportedly drank wine and the long gap between D&C 89 and enforcing the WoW as a temple worthiness requirement create even more doctrinal inconsistencies that make the current interpretation look uninspired and haphazardly patched together.