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  • #207767
    Anonymous
    Guest

    This one is new to me. I put a couple of snippets in the quotes thread.

    February 5th 1840, Joseph Smith preached a public sermon in Washington D.C. to a mixed audience, including congressmen.

    History of the Church Vol 4 says:

    “I had previously preached in Washington, and one of my sermons I find reported in synopsis, by a member of Congress; which I will insert entire.”

    (I’ve read elsewhere that he was actually a news reporter, but congressmen were present).

    Quote:


    [Page 78]

    Mathew S. Davis’ Description of the Prophet, and a Report of his Washington Discourse.

    Washington, 6th February, 1840.

    My Dear Mary:—I went last evening to hear “Joe Smith,” the celebrated Mormon, expound his doctrine. I, with several others, had a desire to understand his tenets as explained by himself. He is not an educated man: but he is a plain, sensible, strong minded man. Everything he says, is said in a manner to leave an impression that he is sincere. There is no levity, no fanaticism, no want of dignity in his deportment. He is apparently from forty to forty-five years of age, rather above the middle stature, and what you ladies would call a very good looking man. In his garb there are no peculiarities; his dress being that of a plain, unpretending citizen. He is by profession a farmer, but is evidently well read.

    He commenced by saying, that he knew the prejudices which were abroad in the world against him, but requested us to pay no respect to the rumors which were in circulation respecting him or his doctrines. He was accompanied by three or four of his followers. He said, “I state to you our belief, so far as time will permit.” “I believe,” said he, “that there is a God, possessing all the attributes ascribed to Him by all Christians of all denominations; that He reigns over all things in heaven and on earth, and that all are subject to His power.” He then spoke rationally of the attributes of Divinity, such as foreknowledge, mercy &c., &c. He then took up the Bible. “I believe,” said he, “in this sacred volume. In it the ‘Mormon’ faith is to be found. We teach nothing but what the Bible teaches. We believe nothing, but what is to be found in this book. I believe in the fall of man, as recorded in the Bible; I believe that God foreknew everything, but did not foreordain everything; I deny that foreordain and foreknow is the same thing. He foreordained the fall of man; but all merciful as He is, He foreordained at the same time, a plan of redemption for all mankind. I believe in the Divinity of Jesus Christ, and that He died for the sins of all men, who in Adam had fallen.” He then entered into some details, the result of which tended to show his total unbelief of what is termed original sin. He believes that it is washed away by the blood of Christ, and that it no longer exists. As a necessary consequence, he believes that we are all born pure and undefiled. That all children dying at an early age (say eight years) not knowing good from evil, were incapable of sinning; and that all such assuredly go to heaven. “I believe,” said he, “that a man is a moral, responsible, free agent; that although it was foreordained he should fall, and be redeemed, yet after the redemption it was not foreordained that he should again sin. In the Bible a rule of conduct is laid down for him; in the Old and Testaments the law by which he is to be governed, may be found. If he violates that law, he is to be punished for the deeds done in the body.

    [Page 79]

    I believe that God is eternal. That He had no beginning, and can have no end. Eternity means that which is without beginning or end. I believe that the soul is eternal; and had no beginning; it can have no end. Here he entered into some explanations, which were so brief that I could not perfectly comprehend him. But the idea seemed to be that the soul of man, the spirit, had existed from eternity in the bosom of Divinity; and so far as he was intelligible to me, must ultimately return from whence it came. He said very little of rewards and punishments; but one conclusion, from what he did say, was irresistible—he contended throughout, that everything which had a beginning must have an ending; and consequently if the punishment of man commenced in the next world, it must, according to his logic and belief have an end.

    During the whole of his address, and it occupied more than two hours, there was no opinion or belief that he expressed, that was calculated, in the slightest degree, to impair the morals of society, or in any manner to degrade and brutalize the human species. There was much in his precepts, if they were followed, that would soften the asperities of man towards man, and that would tend to make him a more rational being than he is generally found to be. There was no violence, no fury, no denunciation. His religion appears to be the religion of meekness, lowliness, and mild persuasion.

    Towards the close of his address, he remarked that he had been represented as pretending to be a Savior, a worker of miracles, etc. All this was false. He made no such pretensions. He was but a man, he said; a plain, untutored man; seeking what he should do to be saved. He performed no miracles. He did not pretend to possess any such power. He closed by referring to the Mormon Bible, which he said, contained nothing inconsistent or conflicting with the Christian Bible, and he again repeated that all who would follow the precepts of the Bible, whether Mormon or not, would assuredly be saved.

    Throughout his whole address, he displayed strongly a spirit of charity and forbearance. The Mormon Bible, he said, was communicated to him, direct from heaven. If there was such a thing on earth, as the author of it, then he (Smith) was the author; but the idea that he wished to impress was, that he had penned it as dictated by God.

    I have taken some pains to explain this man’s belief, as he himself explained it. I have done so because it might satisfy your curiosity, and might be interesting to you, and some of your friends. I have changed my opinion of the Mormons. They are an injured and much-abused people. Of matters of faith, you know I express no opinion. I have only room to add—let William, if you cannot do it, acknowledge the receipt of this, with the enclosure.

    [Page 80]

    Remember me to Sarah and the boys. Kiss the dear baby for me.

    Affectionately your husband,

    M. L. Davis.

    P. S.—I omitted to say, he does not believe in infant baptism, sprinkling, but in immersion, after eight years of age.

    To Mrs. Mathew L. Davis, 107 Henry Street, New York.

    You can read the original History of the Church entry in the BYU online version. You can also access the full History of the Church online at BYU.edu

    A part of the letter was quoted in the June 1994 Ensign

    On that basis my next talk might very well include the following phrase:

    The June 1994 Ensign quoted an account of a public sermon given by Joseph Smith in Washington D.C. in 1840. The account, which was also used in History of the Church, volume 4 says: (and then quote my favourite bits).

    #270914
    Anonymous
    Guest

    The idea of punishment having an ending in the letter is also scriptural:

    D&C 19:

    Quote:

    4 And surely every man must repent or suffer, for I, God, am endless.

    5 Wherefore, I revoke not the judgments which I shall pass, but woes shall go forth, weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth, yea, to those who are found on my left hand.

    6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.

    7 Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory.

    8 Wherefore, I will explain unto you this mystery, for it is meet unto you to know even as mine apostles.

    9 I speak unto you that are chosen in this thing, even as one, that you may enter into my rest.

    10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—

    11 Eternal punishment is God’s punishment.

    12 Endless punishment is God’s punishment.

    13 Wherefore, I command you to repent, and keep the commandments which you have received by the hand of my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., in my name;

    14 And it is by my almighty power that you have received them;

    15 Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.

    16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;

    17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;

    18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—

    19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.

    20 Wherefore, I command you again to repent, lest I humble you with my almighty power; and that you confess your sins, lest you suffer these punishments of which I have spoken, of which in the smallest, yea, even in the least degree you have tasted at the time I withdrew my Spirit.

    So this establishes a few things:

    The words Endless and Eternal in the scripture doesn’t mean “no end” – it is simply another synonym for God. Like Wonderful, Prince of Peace… Endless, Eternal. Other names for God.

    God (or Endless as we could also call him) warns that the non-repentant must suffer even as God (aka Endless) suffered. They will also have to experience the implications and consequences of their actions. The pain they have caused to others through their actions.

    But… this pain will not be without end. If we will suffer “even as I” then we have to look at how he suffered. It caused him to “tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit.” And then it ended: “I partook and finished.”

    This would therefore suggest that there is a doctrine in Mormonism for the opportunity for progression between kingdoms. If I was separated from my family that would be agony, purgatory. There would only be one way to end that pain: progress to the next kingdom if I was wanted to and was willing to do whatever was needed to do so. Anything less would leave me in endless torment. And our scriptures tell us that this is not an option.

    #270915
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks for sharing…I really liked this. It does seem to imply we are not the “literal offspring” of God…which I am ok with. This actually aligns well with my beliefs

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

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