I Think I’m Losing My Testimony of Satan

Interesting. I’ve experienced a similar thing.

Satan is not supposed to be able to enter the temple (or is that an urban myth, is that an official statement). When I think back to certain thoughts I’ve had in the temple, or the fact that the changing rooms have lockable locks or that those with “unkind thoughts for another in the prayer circle” are not to participate in the prayer, I am reminded that I bring myself into the temple with all my existing issues.

A TBM might well say I’m fulfilling scripture in saying all this:

2 Nep 28:22 And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none—and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance.

Pro Satan: An aunt relayed to me that her family had a number of challenges that caused trouble and discord in the marriage. A short time later thay discovered that my Uncle was being called to an important calling. They decided that Satan was trying to keep them from this important responsibility. They were able to redouble their united effort to resist the discord.

Con Satan: Not long ago the EQ lesson was on anger and the focus was that Satan controls and manipulates us through anger. I felt that we missed an opportunity to discuss anger triggers and coping mechanisms by implying that if you get angry – you must be opening your heart to Satan.

The general idea is that you better watch out because there is supposedly some unseen boogeyman that is out to get you and if you make one misstep then it could end up being a slippery slope that leads to complete and utter ruin. These not-so-subtle scare tactics will increasingly ring hollow to many members that disobey the Church only to find out for themselves that in many cases nothing bad ever happens as a direct result.

Sounds like something the devil would say or maybe … the devil’s advocate.

And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil, for he is the founder of all these things; yea, the founder of murder, and works of darkness; yea, and he leadeth them by the neck with a flaxen cord, until he bindeth them with his strong cords forever. 👿

Seriously though, to be fair the church does a pretty good job of steering youth away from harmful choices. I don’t think that anyone would argue that drug use, binge drinking, or promiscuous and unprotected sex are necessary adolescent experiences. I think that the problem is in building additional hedges against the least gateway activity, acting like a breach of the hedge is in itself a sin, and using social pressure to ensure compliance.

I have written before about “guardrails.” Guardrails are personal standards that an individual decides upon to keep themselves from compromising positions. The idea to only double date would make a good guardrail. Unfortunately, I believe that many of these guardrails have been treated like they apply to all and institutionalized.

Sometimes, well-meaning amplifications of divine principles—many coming from uninspired sources—complicate matters further, diluting the purity of divine truth with man-made addenda. One person’s good idea—something that may work for him or her—takes root and becomes an expectation. And gradually, eternal principles can get lost within the labyrinth of “good ideas.”

It is not helpful when we compare the decision to solo date to a “flaxen cord” or say that they aren’t supporting the brethren or just want to sin. The depiction is too black and white to invite meaningful discussion and hopefully arrive at new understandings.

The general idea is that you better watch out because there is supposedly some unseen boogeyman that is out to get you and if you make one misstep then it could end up being a slippery slope that leads to complete and utter ruin. These not-so-subtle scare tactics will increasingly ring hollow to many members that disobey the Church only to find out for themselves that in many cases nothing bad ever happens as a direct result.

Sounds like something the devil would say or maybe … the devil’s advocate.

And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil, for he is the founder of all these things; yea, the founder of murder, and works of darkness; yea, and he leadeth them by the neck with a flaxen cord, until he bindeth them with his strong cords forever. 👿

Seriously though, to be fair the church does a pretty good job of steering youth away from harmful choices. I don’t think that anyone would argue that drug use, binge drinking, or promiscuous and unprotected sex are necessary adolescent experiences. I think that the problem is in building additional hedges against the least gateway activity, acting like a breach of the hedge is in itself a sin, and using social pressure to ensure compliance.

I have written before about “guardrails.” Guardrails are personal standards that an individual decides upon to keep themselves from compromising positions. The idea to only double date would make a good guardrail. Unfortunately, I believe that many of these guardrails have been treated like they apply to all and institutionalized.

Sometimes, well-meaning amplifications of divine principles—many coming from uninspired sources—complicate matters further, diluting the purity of divine truth with man-made addenda. One person’s good idea—something that may work for him or her—takes root and becomes an expectation. And gradually, eternal principles can get lost within the labyrinth of “good ideas.”

It is not helpful when we compare the decision to solo date to a “flaxen cord” or say that they aren’t supporting the brethren or just want to sin. The depiction is too black and white to invite meaningful discussion and hopefully arrive at new understandings.

Hi Turin. It’s good to hear from you again, and with such a thought provoking and positive topic.

I have thought about for a long time. The base idea is sound, good actions and thoughts and bad.

Rather then good and evil. The word evil itself invokes all kinds of negative feelings and cogitation.

So the concept of an invisible supernatural man from on high trying to get into our minds to serve his end isn’t new or unique to even religion. How can we teach this when people believe the same concept of aliens and tinfoil hats.

Only the person changed in that lesson. Which isn’t important. Especially since you can’t see or protect yourself in either situation. Rather how can

Mostly because you can’t run away or protect yourself from your own mind. And are thoughts bad in and of themselves.

Thoughts just lead to possibilities. Exploring feelings and possibilities tend to be good.

Acting on them can be good or bad, but phrasing it is evil evokes emotions of fear, hate, loathing, spite, depression.

Then again, maybe that is the idea of satan lol. Just the idea itself getting into your mind in a literal sense has a negative impact. Thinking about it as an allegory turns the whole negative situation around from paranoia and fear and hate to a positive thought.

People used to believe certain people were posses of satan because of their thoughts and actions, some people still do but it never helps the situation.

I have no idea if satan exist in another realm or not, but he most certainly does have power over people’s minds or ideas.

That idea is one of the worst that humans have ever come up with. Responseable for many millions of deaths, persecutions.

Most psychologist today agree that it has absolutely done more harm then good.

That is why we rephrase it now to good actions and thoughts and bad.

To actually treat and diagnose to help people or to help people to understand what is affecting someone. Not to say they are possessed of evil. That doesn’t help anything.

It’s like saying the devil planted aids for people who had sex outside of marriage so don’t help them.

That idea was popular and did circulate in the 80s. Rather then diagnose and try to treat the situation, all it teaches is to place blame, which doesn’t help the situation, and makes it worse.

I don’t see a need to teach about satan anymore and will certainly teach my kids a better less destructive method of viewing behavior. I’ve personally seem it wreck to much havoc and cause too much caous to let it spread and propagate.

I’m more focused on good mental health approaches now then tradition or old concepts that have proven mentally unhealthy over time.

Esiecaully talking to children like their stupid. Just talk to them in plain English like a normal adult conversation. Over time you will be amazed at how much they understand.

From reading the things I’ve read, especially about depth psychology, I’ve thought similar things. I just finished reading The Soul’s Code by James Hillman (which I highly recommend to everyone here) and it deals with the idea of “bad seeds”: how some notable evil people in history have seemed to have personal callings towards evil. This has me trying to refine the idea that I was developing before: kind of like the tribal story about two wolves within every soul. I have become comfortable with the belief that the potential for evil and depravity exist within each of our spirits, and along with that have developed a hypothesis that maybe Satan is something like an artificial intelligence: a spiritual being, yes, one that encourages us to follow the worst within ourselves, but after all maybe not a conscious entity in the way we believe our spirits to be.

It gives some people comfort. Especially when we had no understanding of the human brain and how it works.

It’s a fine guess to make I suppose with no evidence to go on.

But today while we still have far to go we have also come far with brain understanding in the last 20 years then in all the history of humanity. We should be using that research to develop new understanding of people. How each one if us can do incredible evil or incredible good. Strong convections without questioning can drive a man or women to do both without thinking he has done wrong. Especially if the reasoning is the ends justifys means. It’s simpler to say Hitlar, Temujin or serial killers etc. it’s a easy to understand explanation without getting into the complex realities of the new studies that show it comes from I Mydrid of things. From new research that shows a general link among detail killers with matching strand of DNA. To free will with strong convection. To emotional or physical trauma can chase the brain to reroute and make the neru connections possible for this absolute conviction. But it does terrible disservice to the complex realities, to form a sound bite on something so complex. It defeats the problem of addressing the real causes and symptoms. In the future adjusting the brain pathway and connections may be possible to help avoid this line of thought if traditional therapy won’t help. But excepting the new understanding of the realities and complexities that the evil and good thoughts reside in our own brain pathways helps us to better deal with the problem.

Just as not trying to blame the devil helps a alcoholic in acknowledging the my rid of things that cause a person to start down that road in the fist place and help fix the individual situation with the individual problem. Rather then a mass stereo type that helps us feel better in general but does 0 to help us really understand and attempt to fix it.

We like to think that it is someone else, and we personally are above all it, it couldn’t possible happen to us if we do x, y, z.

It helps us feel better and in control more. The reality is those with string visions, revolutionarys , visionary, and a string conviction are capable of just as much good or evil. It’s a paradox, because there a persons passion or desire of absolute conviction is what drives the best and worst in us all.

Pro Satan: An aunt relayed to me that her family had a number of challenges that caused trouble and discord in the marriage. A short time later thay discovered that my Uncle was being called to an important calling. They decided that Satan was trying to keep them from this important responsibility.

So, Satan has the gift of prophecy where he can see into the immediate future and know what callings good people are going to get and strives to derail that to serve his on purpose and to oppose God’s? Why would God grant Satan a gift like prophecy? Or how could Satan take that gift under his own power to use for evil purposes where God supposedly gives the gift of prophecy to his righteous children to aid them in making his purposes unfold? It doesn’t make sense to me. I believe Satan is a construct to serve a specified purpose within a mythos just as other stories that have been created and maintained over time to serve narrative purposes to influence the story recipient to act or believe a specified way that the teller desires. That is just my opinion.