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I would like to ask a question as I process a recent experience that has been difficult to accept. I saw my parents for the first time in about 8 years for about seven days last week.
Things went awry with my family when I joined the church 30 years ago (they are Evangelicals) and when VERY askew when I married in the temple and they could not attend. I have been the white, black sheep of the family (if you can handle conflicting analogy — white because of my desire to live high standards in becoming LDS, and black because my family disagreed).
Their interest in my life appeared to fall dramatically as I got further and further into the church. And over the last 10 years I have lived out of the country. My parents are healthy, active, of sound mind, and in their early 70’s. They never phone me. They often preface their statements with “I don’t have much time to talk” when I call. When I call, conversations are short and polite, but I get the feeling they don’t have a lot of interest in my life. As the years progress, I rarely call them…
My pilgrimmage to my home country confirmed this. I went reluctantly because my wife and I agreed they are not very interested in my life anymore, and seem reluctant to tell me much about theirs. I have chosen to quell the pain of that by not reaching out anymore….But my sister has been encouraging more interaction….so I planned a vacation there as they are aging and who knows how long they will be healthu and active.
When I took a risk and shared a few details about my life (mostly about service outside the church) with my mother and father, I could tell they were very uninterested. The things I cared most to talk about, they wouldn’t talk about for more than an obligatory sentence. At one point, after my mother asked how my day went (she was out for a day and I stayed around the house and relaxed), I explained a challenge I faced scheduling a meeting and she raised her hands in the air, palms up, with a shoulder shrug, which showed indifference. It hurt….particularly since later in the day I sat and listened for an hour to her own humanitarian efforts at a local senior’s center she has been involved with for the last 9 years.
I am wondering now if it’s simply that I share too much detail? Or is it that there is simply a deep indifference to my life. I tend to think the latter — only because they didn’t come see my wife and I for over a year after we gave birth to my daughter (after 10 years of trying) — eventually we went to them on our own so they could meet their grand-daughter. They sent us a 1st year birthday card for my daughter when she was two year’s old, and then apologized because the 1 year anniversary was the date of my nephew’s birthday. The whole time I lived as an adult in my home country, they never came to see me, even though they would visit my brother and sister regularly.
So my question — how much detail do you share about your life with your parents? As you have grown into adulthood, do you find the interactions become less involved, more acquaintance like? Or is there an enduring interest in each other’s lives?I am curious…as I process and decide on the extent to which I reach out to them in the future. (Naturally, if they get ill I will be there for them) I am trying to figure out if it’s me, the church or adulthood. Your answers will help me see the landscape of parent-child relationships (whether totally LDS or not).
SilentDawning wrote:So my question — how much detail do you share about your life with your parents? As you have grown into adulthood, do you find the interactions become less involved, more acquaintance like? Or is there an enduring interest in each other’s lives?
In my experience with my own parents DM calls to catch up every month or so. She has been a supportive listener when I needed her most and I can now tell her anything. When she puts DF on the phone we usually talk about politics, or economics, or medicine – It’s not that he cares any less about me and my life but we just need a subject to keep the conversation moving.
As far as your parents – I can only speculate. I know many people including myself are simply self-centered and not as interested in hearing about other people as in telling about myself. Let’s talk about me!
They might also hold a grudge or feel that you are going to hell or they may have just developed a stronger relationship with the closer children over time. They may feel that you made your choice to leave them and their beliefs so long ago – so they are not to blame for the current state of affairs. Self justification is a natural protective mechanism – but it can also get in the way of seeking understanding and ultimately an opportunity to change/grow.
I can understand how difficult parents can be. I have had a few problems myself, especially when I married my Wife. They were disapproving but now they treat her like family. My advice is to only talk about things that you know your parents would be interested in, at least for awhile. Allow that relationship to move slowly and not talk about topics that might be offensive. It might take years, but eventually everyone will be able to talk freely about anything. You obviously care about your parents and want your kids to know who they are. Take baby steps and don’t expect too much too soon. It’s like dating, you don’t bring up things to upset your boy/girlfriend right away if you want to continue dating.
I don’t know if this makes sense, but good luck with your parents!
It doesn’t sound like it’s you, the church or adulthood. From what you said, it seems like you have tried your best to have contact with them and they are the ones who have pulled back. I’m sure there are all different kinds of parent/adult child relationships, but this one doesn’t sound like a healthy one to me, mostly since they treat you differently than your siblings so it isn’t just their style of parenting. I have a close relationship with my parents so I share quite a bit and they, especially my mother, are quite interested in my life. This mostly developed later in life, but some of it is probably due to how things went when I was a child. But parents are just people who do things wrong and don’t always deal with things maturely, too. Since I am close to my parents, reading your description of how your parents treat you made me sad for you. You didn’t mention what your home country is, but maybe the culture you grew up in is different than mine and this behavior is more normal there. I hope your relationship with them can become what you want it to be at some point though. As you know, I have almost no contact with my parents or siblings. Pretty well, if I don’t share their faith and loyalty to the church, they aren’t interested in hearing or knowing about my life. Perhaps that is the price reformers have to pay.
So I can empathize with you somewhat SD.
No good advice.. . . In extended families people usually take births as opportunities to be a little warmer and connected, especially when they have trouble expressing emotion. Milestones in the kids’ lives trigger interaction and help keep the adults talking. You might have an uphill climb since your parents are so blase about your daughter. Sorry about your pain and their loss. Glad your long-awaited daughter is here! I am very close to my parents, but I don’t interact with them as much as they would like. We live over a thousand miles apart, and have for nearly all of my adult life, and I simply haven’t made it a point to stay closely connected – but I know I can and that they will listen and care. I think we interact as much as we really want to interact, given the unique circumstances, rewards and pains of doing so. They appear not to want to interact, and, ultimately, there isn’t anything you can do to make that change. All you can do is try to love them in whatever way you can and “honor” them by being the best person you can be – so people will think of “their name” positively because of you.
“
We love him, because he first loved us” is a wonderful principle – but it doesn’t always work for all relationships. All we can do is try to love first – even when the other person(s) “should” love first. Thanks for the responses…it seems uneven — the amount of interaction people have with their parents. I know things went awry with my church involvement 30 years ago and the price I’ve paid is lack of interest in my life from my parents…and sibs. And now, I realize the only real close people in my life are my wife and kids. Not convinced it’s worth sacrificing family for the church (however you want to define ‘church’ or ‘gospel’ — I won’t get into that debate). That has been my life’s lesson….as the people in the church who were in the temple with me hardly even remember me, and none keep in contact. I feel sad today…I must admit.
Anyway, one must think — where will I find inner peace when say, I am the only one left in my family? Wife gone, kids gone or indifferent? From where do you get your peace and joy from relationships?
I believe it must come from prayer, reflection, service to people you don’t know etcetera. Close relationships can be so fragile….
Thanks everyone, for your responses…it’s nice to have a community to ask these questions of….pre-Internet, the only place would be my journal, and it doesn’t answer back
SilentDawning wrote:Anyway, one must think — where will I find inner peace when say, I am the only one left in my family? Wife gone, kids gone or indifferent? From where do you get your peace and joy from relationships?
…Close relationships can be so fragile….
This is a great question SD. Those that are most important to us may betray us actively or merely betray the relationship through thoughtless neglect. I hope that I will go through life building new relationships as I move through the different phases of life. With each new relationship there is some vulnerability and some risk for hurt, but as Wendy Ulrich says, “We don’t get to make the no hurt choice because there isn’t one.” I can either be hurt by people or hurt by isolation. As I age and my opportunities to build new relationships dwindle – I may find that I have been abandoned to the isolation regardless “after all that I can do.” Life is like that sometimes. I make my choices imperfectly and my choices only form one variable in what happens in my life. Sometimes “hope” seems pretty audacious after all – still we cling to it. Sometimes it is all that is keeping us from sinking into the abyss.
I’m sorry to hear that. It must be really painful for you. I have increasing interaction with my mother. We share a lot and are good friends. After my wife, my mum is the person ‘IRL’ that I’ve shared most with. Usually through the eye of faith rather than doubt. But a lot more than with others.
My Dad and I have a cordial relationship. It’s been rocky in the past.
SilentDawning wrote:Thanks for the responses…it seems uneven — the amount of interaction people have with their parents. I know things went awry with my church involvement 30 years ago and the price I’ve paid is lack of interest in my life from my parents…and sibs. And now, I realize the only real close people in my life are my wife and kids. Not convinced it’s worth sacrificing family for the church (however you want to define ‘church’ or ‘gospel’ — I won’t get into that debate). That has been my life’s lesson….as the people in the church who were in the temple with me hardly even remember me, and none keep in contact.
I feel sad today…I must admit.
Anyway, one must think — where will I find inner peace when say, I am the only one left in my family? Wife gone, kids gone or indifferent? From where do you get your peace and joy from relationships?
I believe it must come from prayer, reflection, service to people you don’t know etcetera. Close relationships can be so fragile….
Thanks everyone, for your responses…it’s nice to have a community to ask these questions of….pre-Internet, the only place would be my journal, and it doesn’t answer back
Hi SD! If I could, I want to share a few things in my own life. I live
In the same country as my parents but the opposite of the country. When I first moved here I was forbidden to by my parents and they had talked with the bishop and SP that tried to intervene and say that god told each of them and forbad me to go. If I left I would be cut off from rejoining the family or entering the house. It was all done with many people involved using much pressure to persuade me not to go. When it didn’t take I was left with yelling screaming commanding voices for weeks before I left. I was leaving to pursue my engagement with my then non Mormon fiancé who had moved across country. Although I typed to remain calm and show them love hoping charity would rule in the end it did not happen and I spent years crying hidden in the corner of my apartment. I was happy otherwise but frustrated where I am always made to choose loyalty. Over the years my parents got older, less zealous. Gradually they wanted to see me again. I love them very much as I has my ward to. But love doesn’t put conditions in things. Love doesn’t have expectations, it just has hope. I know my parents love me deep down, it shows in many ways unsaid. Things are a lot better then before and I don’t hold grudges so as to not put up any barriers on my part. They do not know of my current situation of the church, which is remarkably similar to my parents.
I love them both to death but logical brain had to take over in both cases or I wouldn’t survive either relationship.
I found my peace with my family and readily help them or accept them at any opportunity but like the church I must keep a logical thought involved so I don’t wind up being manipulated again. Both the church and my parents have potential to undo my psychological training to remain healthy.
Many wonderful words and lessons from both learned but not with out each visit their is contention, obedience trumpeted, black and white thinking plastered throughout each visit both at church and family. Excessive request for sacrifice and unquestioning or open thinking.
Why would I feel comfortable on a place I can’t peacefully and reasonably speak my mind and get love and understanding as I do in return? I don’t. I can’t. Although I continue to try and pick out the nuggets and focus on that. But the talks and lessons end up being 50-70% negative 50-30% positive. Much like my family.
A long story short I continue to try frequently. But it’s tiring and I need a break.
A place to go to to find peace and joy.
I find peace and joy in everyday interactions, smiling to people, helping them, trying to show people that there are people who just do things for them without any expectations in return. When they finally get it in their own and express appreciation it’s worth all the world. I also find joy meditating in the mountains camping and hiking. John muir and I could be brothers we are so alike lol. I guess that how I can kind of relate to Joseph amity going to the woods to pray. It only hurts me when I told the temple is the only holy place that god walks repeatedly. Umm really? Way to try to take away my comfort zone and coping mechanism. I don’t need to feel deflated so I try not to bring it up anymore, even with my own wife. The other things I feel peace and joy at our service to those in need around me and service organizations that express appreciation without expectation of service from me as I have various things I must do to balance my life.
I write poetry, as well as scuba dive, spelunk, and take care of a reef aquarium that immensely calms me down with the ecosystem of life and colors and learning about life and interactions from it. I record a dairy of those interactions.
These are just example of something’s I do to have joy and peace. I share with you a few I can see.
But you’ll have to find your joy and peace.
Relationships are complex and untimely beyond our control as we deal with others free will. So while I treasure every relationship, I don’t depend on things or relationships beyond my control or desire to establish. They are fleeting. I focus on the things I can engage that I can effect and draw from.
Act naturally, if they are inclined, they will come around if you leave the door open. But it is their choice and there is no guarantee that they will do the same. Put things back in your control by focusing on what does make a difference for you and not dependent on others. I wish you the best of luck and blessings and the courage to leave the door open, even if others slam it in your face.
SD – I may have a different answer after I return from visiting my family next week, but I wanted to add some thoughts based on a small amount of experience. My first thought was – pat yourself and your family on the back.The visit may not have been long, it may have felt stiff and unfulfilling, but you made headway. Even if it was just sitting in the house alone, you were allowed in. Each of us heal differently. Time is often our only friend. But I see some success. Give the little beam of light credit. It may grow.
Also – follow your instincts, you said she talked about her stuff. There’s your clue, be interested and take part in her stuff. It’s what all of us want. We want a 100% support us buddy. Even just hanging out at her charity may help. Or listening with out comparing. Chieko Okazaki talks about that often. That is how she kept the doors open in her and her husbands family. Her family had been more supportive of her conversion, her husband Ed’s family wasn’t. It took 20 years and a long distant move. But she encouraged working with them. When they went to Ed’s family, they didn’t get offended when his brothers teased him about not drinking and gambling anymore. When the family had tea or coffee, Ed and Chieko drank warm water and sat at the table. Their only goal was to keep the door open.
Last of all – my mom taught me the same lessons. She was the convert. She was an only child. Her father had left the church, but while he was active he had helped build the temple she was sealed in. The one he couldn’t attend or see her in. The one that crushed his dream of walking her down the aisle like he had wanted all his life. There would be no second chance, no other daughter – nothing. It was all over. My mom’s wedding reception pictures show the pain. To add insult to injury my dad was drafted and shipped over seas. Because of his place in the army, Mom got to go, and she was pregnant with me. Now my LDS dad had taken all of their dreams. The chasm of hurt was big. But time away, a new baby, my dad’s willingness to buy the house across the street from his in-laws, and his defense of my grandfather against union thugs who were camped out front of grandpa’s home – turned the tide.
It didn’t all mend at once. All my life my grandparents kept no connection to the church. They came to ordinances or receptions or events. Even if our family was performing or speaking. But when we got together Mom made a point to make their world our world. Grandma brought her coffee and pot – no questions asked. We watched their movies, played their games. It worked. For 30 years we had a family. It needed nurturing but it is the most triumphant story I get to tell.
SD- You’ve done great this trip. I am sending you a high five and hug for your success. I know it will grow. I’ve lived it. You’re going to do great.
P.S. “They came to ordinances” should read “They came to no ordinances or any performances we had in church.” SD, I am really sorry to hear this. I have had some difficult family relationships but what I have done is to try to always keep the door opened to have them improve and try not to hold a grudge but at the same time invest most of my time and effort in those relationships that are the most mutual and uplifting to me and my family. That goes for family, friends and even for the church. I will put up with a little indifference but not any abuse. If your parents are showing any signs of warming up then continue to invest but if it is really bring you down then it might be better to back off some. But like the old Bonnie Rratt song goes “I can’t make you love me if you don’t”, so trying to force you way into their hearts will not be enough and I don’t think what Ray said about “loving them first” will work because they are the parents and they should already love you. Just my 2 cents worth and I try not to overestimate the value of my opinion. Anyway good luck and know we love and appreciate you. Thanks everyone — I appreciate the comments….I feel the best thing is to continue meeting them at the level of contact they want. Which is basically whenever they invite me…or reach out.
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