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July 23, 2013 at 5:34 pm #207804
Anonymous
GuestI recieved a PM about a comment I made the other day The PM was really good and made some great points and ideas, so I want to start a thread on this topic and get other folks ideas and opinions. Quote:Hi, I hope you don’t mind me PMing you. If you would rather discuss this in the group setting I am up for that as well..
But I just wondering what you meant by
“Welcome to the third great spiritual awakening….it’s called 21st century universalism…and we need Mormons, active Mormons in the church, to be part of it.”I am reading a book called “How to raise your Vibration”.. the author speaks of the time of the Earth that we are living and it sounds similar to what you are referring to, although she doesn’t call it that. Where could I read more?
I feel that something huge is going on…it seems more people want truth; MEAT and not milk… which is why I feel that so many people are leaving the church. Frustrated that their spirits aren’t getting what it needs, searching hopelessly for something greater and not finding it here and leaving b/c they aren’t.But not knowing where to find it they tend to turn to things that really wont make them happy and tend to bring them less spirituality rather than more… since “the one and only true source” failed them. I am probably speaking just my experience, but it seems that I have friends and family who seem to have gone through that as well.I am also intrigued by your statement “we need active Mormons to be a part of it”. I keep praying to leave, I feel that if it were just up to me I would, but I keep getting the answer that I must stay to help others IN the church. But I don’t even know how. I also don’t know how to hear all of the things that seem to scream “guilt and judgment” without throwing me into Stage 3 of Faith Crisis. Anyway… I am just hungering to learn more and more, connect with God and my highest part of my self and live my potential so when I read your “Spiritual Awakening/21 century universalism” I felt I wanted to learn more.
I’m not sure what else to say, because this pretty well sums it up, IMO.
One thing I have noticed, talking to other NOMs and people from other faiths who have left their church…is that most feel they have been pulled into this pathway…this pathway of questioning and wanting more. The narrow confines that demand alliance and loyalty to small groups of people and churches are just not working anymore. Like John D. posted on the front page, people are leaving church, including the Mormon church, because they care too much, not too little.
I also see a huge pull on people, secularists, humanists, as well as religious folks to reach out and become a global community —- Universalism. To do good, for goodness sake, regardless. As we have progressed beyond the prejudices of race and gender and nationality, the “spirit” works on the masses and humanity is doing great things on this planet. We have left the borders of our unique cultures and societies, and realize we are in it together. I think this is what is causing people to leave religions in droves. The collective conscientiousness of humankind demands more. Religions are scared and want to control the agenda and conversation, yet society just continues to evolve and have left organized religion behind.
Religion is failing mankind…not the gods.
Perhaps if enough people stay in religion, including the mormon church, religion will evolve and catch up with the rest of humanity.
July 23, 2013 at 5:56 pm #271480Anonymous
GuestI find it hard to be in the middle of things and be able to identify it as a movement or a new era of some kind. I believe people have been calling for Meat instead of milk for generations, it is not new to our generation.
What seems to be new are the tools like the Internet to have these conversations and have access to some much information. I think when transportation (like flight) made it easier to see the world, people’s views changed with greater experience.
We now have greater transportation of ideas, which gives us all more experience and some validation that these thoughts and questions are not so unique.
I believe the church is (slowly) changing because of this (Joseph Smith Papers, RSR, etc). Because it has to. But hasn’t it been doing that since 1830?
Maybe it will take time to look at the change and then be able to label it “a new awakening” or some defining era different than others … but it seems difficult to call it that while we are in the middle of it.
July 23, 2013 at 6:31 pm #271481Anonymous
GuestI actually believe in the concept of a great awakening at various times throughout history – and in the sudden emergence of genealogical fervor around the time of the Restoration – and more examples of movements that are difficult to ascribe to randomness. Our new technology makes it easier for movements to spread rapidly, and I do believe there is a “globalist” movement that parallels our theology very well – and openness to understanding and the breaking down of stereotypes that was impossible for most of human history. We can ride the wave and take advantage of our theological fit or fight it – and I find it interesting to see what I believe to be a movement and shift in our top leadership that mirrors that movement.
July 23, 2013 at 9:27 pm #271482Anonymous
Guestcwald – I’m with you on this one. A few weeks ago I went to Europe. We toured everywhere we could, this included many churches and cathedrals. Their history, their art, theology and life importance struck me. Every town in Europe has a church in the center. Among all the buildings that make that city, at least one pair of spires and bell towers rise above the roofs.
In various churches that we arrived at, Mass was being held. The attendees were small in number, so small that the group often met in a room just off to the side. But I sat there and listened as a handful of male parishioners chanted the prayers of their faith in their native tongue. I loved it.
I have had the privilege of growing up in the LDS mission field (not the BoM corridor). I thought I was appreciative of other faiths, until this trip. On the last church we attended, the town was celebrating a saint holiday. The building was bustling with High Communion, traditional dancers out front, and humble prayer rooms filled. As we were leaving the building we choose to step into the prayer room and pray. An official stood out front allowing entrance only to worshippers. No tourists. We were allowed in. We took our seat in the pew. Beside us knelt others with rosary’s dangling through their hands. Others with heads bowed on the pew in front.
I didn’t have a prepared prayer, I just let my heart speak. As I sat there two very overwhelming ideas hit me. First I am a religionist. I didn’t even know it. But if I were capable I would encourage people to go back to the religion of their childhood. Learn it’s good points and history – and carry forward. The second was that earlier religions than ours were more than just good. They were part of His plan. They were the beacons on the mountain top to guide His Kingdom forward. They are necessary, even with the flaws, mistakes, etc. With out each one spirituality and it’s necessity wouldn’t have survived. I also felt strongly that I needed to stay in the religion of my childhood. It’s important. I don’t know why or how, but we are apart of something bigger and we need people in our pews to help keep our beacon watched over.
Whether this is a new chapter, I don’t know, but I know I don’t want to miss it. I want to help it keep awakening.
July 23, 2013 at 10:42 pm #271483Anonymous
GuestGreat post mom3. Btw, I enjoyed your pics from the trip that you posted on Facebook.
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July 24, 2013 at 2:08 am #271484Anonymous
GuestGreat posts everyone. Cwald – I love the idea. I’ve so many bubbling around in my head.
I’ve spent the last 18 months living in Asia. It has been my ‘great awakening.’
When I came out here it was almost as if the ‘the gods’ had engineered it. It just happened. A wise old brother said “you’re going there for a good reason, embrace it.” I presumed God was sending us to Asia so my wife would come back to church. I struggled for a while to understand why, instead, she wasn’t attending and I was considering leaving. I wondered if it was a test I was failing.
But I have come to wonder if it was entirely the opposite. My perspectives are genuinely universal. I consider Mormon ordinances to be exactly what we say they are: outward expression of an inner conviction. If another person can express and live that inner conviction with a different outward expression, or no ceremony at all, then I celebrate that and so, I believe, does God.
I don’t think he really cares what religion we are or what covenants we make. I think he cares who we become and how we treat people while we do. If a religion facilitates that great. If it doesn’t, move on.
Mom3, I loved hearing about your religious experiences.
A couple of weeks ago I was in a quiet Buddhist temple. In a room with a large laughing Buddha statue the person there explained that people pray there and said I could if I wanted. I knelt on the stool and offered a simple prayer to the God of my understanding. I didn’t pray to Buddha. I prayed with the Buddhists. My guide nodded when I stood up and said “Buddha liked your prayer, he’s smiling.”
Some Mormons take these truths as a cop out. I’m ok with that. I consider it a “cop in.”
July 24, 2013 at 2:45 am #271485Anonymous
GuestI’ll second cwald — great posts, everyone. Mom3, I especially liked yours, as you talked about your spiritual feelings as you visited the cathedrals and churches in Europe. I can totally relate. I’m fortunate enough to be able to travel abroad several times a year for my job, and (as much as I hate airports and crowded airplanes) what I do love is getting to know and appreciate other cultures, and to see the good in humanity throughout the world. I love meeting with other Christians, with Buddhists, with Muslims, and with basically anyone who is attempting to develop a relationship with The Transcendent. I actively seek out sites of religious significance as well as I travel — medieval cathedrals, Buddhist and Taoist temples, and even megalithic sites where ancient people worshiped 4000-6000 years ago (as well as sites of natural beauty, where I can feel the spirit).
I nearly always feel that my spirit has been expanded through my contact with other cultures and peoples and religions, and then … I come back to what often seem like the provincial backwaters of Utah. That’s the hardest part of coming home.
So many times at church I hear people say that they just can’t understand how anyone could be happy or find meaning outside of the church. And I think of all of the people I’ve met in other religions, whose life is full and rich because of their religious beliefs. It makes me very sad that many in the Church are unable to see or recognize this.
July 24, 2013 at 5:33 am #271486Anonymous
GuestIsolation breeds contempt and narrow vision. As much as anything else, isolation saved the Church from destruction – but it also provided blinders for the membership and leadership. That is changing radically now, in most areas except some pockets of rural Utah, and the breakdown of isolation is as responsible for the change I’ve seen as anything else, imo.
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