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I just can’t identify with the church culture. I hear so often how people in the church love the social aspect and the culture and they could never leave even if they didn’t believe. For me it’s the forest covering the trees, always has been. The church institution is too busy for me. I’m not a young kid or even middle age anymore but I still want to participate in some pretty rigorous activities. I also want to experience life, be part of mans amazing achievements and go fishing. I finally have to admit I am angry. Anger affects everything. I am YM 1st counselor and my lessons are starting to bomb. I haven’t found time to HT for three months. It takes effort to pray and read scriptures on my own. I don’t want to stop doing these things but I’m not good at anything. Many days I want to just stop going to church. Don’t even ask about my relationship with my wife. I am desperate. Understand this, as a teenager and into my late 20’s I took a path that wasn’t productive and didn’t maximize my potential. A big wast of gifts and talents. A couple years ago I was taking a night class on my way to a 2 year college degree. Part of a goal that I put in place years ago to catch up or make up for wasting my youth. Part way thru my semester I had to drop out because my callings were too demanding. There are windows of opportunity for everything in life. some window are shorter than others and some opportunities are very presentable. This goal was to attain a commercial aviation degree with associated ratings and certificates that can be very expensive. At this point opportunities were falling in my lap. I had a plane to use for the price of fuel, I had a neighbor and another friend willing to give me free instruction, I had created an on line news letter -it was in the beginning stages with hopes to expand or combine with a subscription magazine, I had contacts and amazing facilities with flight simulators that would give me every opportunity to succeed and I was around people who were encouraging and respectful. One at a time I had to tell them I just didn’t have the time.
No matter what leadership I talked to at church I couldn’t get any answer other than the likes of: “20% of the people do 80% of the work. Don’t be an 80% ‘er.” “When I was in YM I used every vacation day for the organization.” “If you can save even one kid from going astray it will have been worth it.” “We prayed and your name kept coming up.” “If you’re pursuing this goal for “gravy money” you should think hard about it.” “You should be pursuing eternal opportunities (this one kills me because it’s one or the other)” Most of these are decent replies at core and that’s why I didn’t take a hard stance, I don’t want to go against leadership council but I now regret loosing the opportunity and it hurts. I know I can’t go back in time but It’s killing me inside and I can’t let go of it. That’s what is affecting everything I do.
If I keep looking for a way to replicate my opportunities I’ll just be disappointed. I can’t forget it and move on therefore I am angry without end at the circumstances brought on by the church and that I allowed it to happen.
I don’t know what to ask. I finally made an appointment with my bishop tonight but I have no idea how to present this. I don’t see a resolution. Any thoughts or even admonishments are welcome.
Quote Elder Wirthlin from “Concern for the One” about being “weary” and needing a break for a while to recharge. The link is:
http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2008/04/concern-for-the-one?lang=eng The best parts of the talk that deal with being weary are:
Quote:Some are lost because they are weary. It’s easy to feel overwhelmed. With all the pressures and demands on our time and the stress we face each day, it’s little wonder we get tired. Many feel discouraged because they have not measured up to their potential. Others simply feel too weak to contribute. And so, as the flock moves on, gradually, almost imperceptibly, some fall behind.
Everyone has felt tired and weary at one time or another. I seem to feel more so now than I did when I was younger. Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, even Jesus Christ knew what it meant to be tired. I do not wish to underestimate the weight that members of the Church bear upon their shoulders, nor do I minimize the emotional and spiritual trials they face. These can be heavy and often difficult to bear.
Quote:To all who are weary, let the comforting words of the Savior console you: “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” Let us rely on that promise. The power of God can infuse our spirits and bodies with energy and vigor. I urge you to seek this blessing from the Lord.
Draw near to Him, and He will draw near to you, for He has promised that “they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.”
Quote:When we show concern for those who are weary, we “succor the weak, lift up the hands which hang down, and strengthen the feeble knees.” Caring Church leaders are mindful of individual limitations yet eager to utilize members to the extent of their strength and abilities. Leaders teach and support but do not bring pressure to “run faster or labor more than” strength allows.
Thanks Ray. Thanks for extracting the quotes. I will make time to look at the entire talk. I don’t think I am weary now. I traded my goals for accepting my calling and it makes me angry now.
Then I think you have two options: 1) Keep doing your calling to the best of your ability, but don’t obsess over it. Put in whatever time is best for you, and don’t worry about doing it “perfectly”. Accept your best as your best, and let the leaders keep you or release you, whichever they want.
2) Ask to be released, but mention that you still want to serve in some other way. Either make a suggestion for something you’d like to do or leave it open-ended. Then do what I suggested in the first option.
Don’t make it confrontational, and don’t dump – unless you feel you need to dump and are willing to deal with the possible consequences. Approach it productively, and let the chips fall where they may.
Old-Timer wrote:
Don’t make it confrontational, and don’t dump – unless you feel you need to dump and are willing to deal with the possible consequences. Approach it productively, and let the chips fall where they may.On my way
I have had the same thoughts lately. We went on an Alaska cruise a few weeks ago and it was a lot of fun, but I felt a little bad because my wife and the other couple we went with were a little up tight with the cruise life style. They were so afraid to have fun if it looked like it was too worldly. I talked them into doing some things that at first was new to them, and they has fun. It wasn’t wrong in any way. I have missed out on a lot of things because it seemed so unchurchy and like Jesus would be mad at me if I laughed at the comedian. Plus there are so many things I haven’t done because I would have to miss church or because there was some church activity I had to go do or someone needed help moving or there were youth baptism at the temple. Kipper wrote:This is not working for me. All that really matters is what we do in the kingdom. Goals, dreams, ambitions…it’s all about sacrifice. Something is wrong with this church.
Going back over this thread I need to mention this post was after my meeting with my bishop. I don’t mean to discount his sincerity, he is a really good man and wants to help me with a conclusion. He asked me to come back and schedule his last appointment so we would not be up against time.
This just shows how I felt after our discussion.
Kipper wrote:This is not working for me. All that really matters is what we do in the kingdom. Goals, dreams, ambitions…it’s all about sacrifice. Something is wrong with this church.
Kipper, I feel your anger and dissappointment in what you wrote. It is a sad time when leaders feel the need to use “guilt trips” when making callings.One thing I learned a while ago was that we are able to say no. If it takes away from your family time/work time/education time then say no. If you feel like your career/job/family life will suffer due to the calling, say no.
Ray has offered some great advice and I hope that it helps you.
A little anecdote. The goalie for my favorite NHL team is nicknamed Kipper. For years the team relied on him to make them much better than they were, and for a while it worked. He would play 70/84 games each season. He’s been burnt out these past couple of years and the team has had no success. Nobody wins when team members are burnt out. Rest, relax, and re-charge. This will be best for you, your family, and any future calling that you may have.
Best of luck to you.
In my experience, Kipper, those feelings are telling you something, like something isn’t in balance or isn’t right within you. But as we get older, it does seem difficult to allow yourself to make some changes, because of the responsibilities and ties you’ve created. But when the tension inside gets to a certain point, it requires some choices on what to do and what not to do…and in those lessons are opportunities to learn wisdom.
I have learned over the years that there are more options available for us to consider, and they are OK to consider, even if it doesn’t seem like you are taught that in church. If I need to recharge, or relax, or reconnect to God or my beliefs…sometimes I find it easier to do that outside of church. I have taken a Sunday to skip church and go to the Mountains, or other activities…and have tried to figure out what I need to find peace.
But I do think God sometimes pushes us in a direction to help us learn what we need to adjust things when we are out of balance, and when those internal nagging feelings are telling us we need to learn something new. And I think there are ways to navigate that without burning bridges.
Thanks Meh Mormon Heber13 wrote:In my experience, Kipper, those feelings are telling you something, like something isn’t in balance or isn’t right within you. But as we get older, it does seem difficult to allow yourself to make some changes, because of the responsibilities and ties you’ve created.
Actually last night Bishop mentioned it’s all about balance but I reactively said it is always out of balance.
Heber13 wrote:
But when the tension inside gets to a certain point, it requires some choices on what to do and what not to do…and in those lessons are opportunities to learn wisdom.
I think I have gained some wisdom. Not sure everyone around me would agree but it may be time to make some choices.
Heber13 wrote:
I have learned over the years that there are more options available for us to consider, and they are OK to consider, even if it doesn’t seem like you are taught that in church. If I need to recharge, or relax, or reconnect to God or my beliefs…sometimes I find it easier to do that outside of church. I have taken a Sunday to skip church and go to the Mountains, or other activities…and have tried to figure out what I need to find peace.
I have not learned that more options are OK, but I can see that. I once heard or read somewhere, maybe here, that a spiritual experience can be found in different settings. It doesn’t always have to be in a chapel. Only I would miss taking sacrament but not as a rule.Heber13 wrote:
But I do think God sometimes pushes us in a direction to help us learn what we need to adjust things when we are out of balance, and when those internal nagging feelings are telling us we need to learn something new. And I think there are ways to navigate that without burning bridges.
I understand this but it is very difficult to put into action when others, leaders and spouse, are pushing a different direction and hanging disapproval based on your obligation to build the kingdom as priority over you. I am very easily encouraged at the same time I can be very easily compelled to do what others think I should. What do you do when you feel God has given approval followed with opportunities but others thru their prayer and revelation have received a different direction for you. “God knows you better than you know yourself” were the compelling words that changed my direction and countered my inspiration. I feel deceived.Quote:I once heard or read somewhere, maybe here, that a spiritual experience can be found in different settings.
Pres. Uchtdorf has said that while emphasizing the beauty and wonder of connecting with nature.
Quote:What do you do when you feel God has given approval followed with opportunities but others thru their prayer and revelation have received a different direction for you?
Follow what you believe God is telling you – what you feel is right at that time.Period. If He really wants you to do something, He will confirm it somehow to you – whether of not He impresses someone else, as well. Read my lesson summary on “Two Lines of Communication” by Elder Oaks in the “My New Calling” thread. It’s one of the last few comments. He says the Priesthood line is for the governance of the Church, while the Personal line is for individual and family guidance.
NOBODY has the right or authority to receive personal revelation for you, except you.Inspiration within spheres of responsibility does not over-ride personal revelation – and “revelation” can be whatever you feel and think is best for you. It doesn’t have to come with burning bushes or bosoms. Quote:“Ye are gods, and children of the Most High God.”
Ultimately, you have to follow your own conscience and not shift responsibility for your choices to others. It’s called agency, and it’s a really powerful concept if fully and truly embraced, especially when combined with the humility and maturity to sacrifice personal desires for interpersonal needs – but only for NEEDS, not organizational wants.
Ray…really good thoughts. Old-Timer wrote:What do you do when you feel God has given approval followed with opportunities but others thru their prayer and revelation have received a different direction for you?
Follow what you believe God is telling you – what you feel is right at that time. Period.
I think there are several church lessons that teach this very thing. How much of what Joseph Smith did was done because others approved of it? How did the Savior handle himself when others attacked him and his beliefs?
There are multiple examples in the scriptures of people who have the strength to follow what God was telling them, even when it was hard.
Now…the interesting thing is to see how Elder Oaks warns about personal revelation that may be in conflict with priesthood revelation. Working through that can cause some serious reflection.
At the end of the day, I agree with Ray…it is your life and you need to do what is right for you, and the church may preach the ideals or the mainstream teachings, but we all live our own unique situations that sometimes require us to adapt, or sometimes, just accept we may not be in the mainstream with this or that aspect of the gospel.
At the end of the day, we are to follow our conscience and use our agency. When we don’t, it typically leads to a conflicted spirit within us.
(Psst …
:shh: also… Joseph Smith made lots of mistakes along the way, even when he was doing what he thought was what God was telling him to do…its OK to not always be right…but this we don’t know until we try)I have seen listed a priority list of “Work, Family, Church” I really do believe that there is room to insert self in there. Stephen Covey refers to it as sharpening the axe. If you don’t take care of yourself then you won’t be able to sustain your level of work, or family, or church responsibilities. Sometimes when this happens for too long, it can result in your body wearing out before its time.
As a church we do seem to have a model where we subject ourself to sacrifice sometimes for the sake of sacrifice. This especially drives me nuts with the Sunbeams – is learning to sit still through lessons that are way over their head character building for 4 year olds???
Unfortunately the organization will push you to give as much as you are able and then some more. There may be vague promises of blessings if you do this or that – that God will somehow make up the shortfall in time, energy, money, etc. if you but serve with all your might. In my personal experience, God’s track record of stepping in to avert disaster is pretty scetchy. Only you can determine how much of your time, energy, and money is sustainable for you.
I agree that 20% tend to do 80% of the work. Sometimes I will agree to an assignment because I can see that the people in charge are overwhelmed – so I try to give them a breather. But it will be a short term breather only. I will not sign up to take their place on the never ending treadmill. I didn’t set up the church to be the way it is and it is not my responsibility to sacrifice my well-being to keep the local programs afloat.
As far as the past… I believe that it is healthy for you to let it go. If this means taking a break from church in order to do it then so be it. The past is gone and allowing it to sour your present is not helpful. The church had too much power over you in the past, I wonder if the current anger isn’t just the other side of the coin – but still giving the church too much unhealthy influence in your life. Please take a metaphorical step back.
I recently have been listening to some meditation CD’s to help with some anxiety. One exercise is to imagine that your mother is speaking – what follows is a sincere apology for shortfalls and a declaration of love, acceptance, and support. What might be the benefit of this? I believe it is an exercise in letting go of some of the hurt of the past in order to better face the present – even if the hypothetical mother might never change. Sometimes there can be some good comparisons between the church and an emotionally distant parent.
I know it is easier said than done. Good luck my friend.
Roy wrote:
Unfortunately the organization will push you to give as much as you are able and then some more. There may be vague promises of blessings if you do this or that – that God will somehow make up the shortfall in time, energy, money, etc. if you but serve with all your might. In my personal experience, God’s track record of stepping in to avert disaster is pretty scetchy. Only you can determine how much of your time, energy, and money is sustainable for you.As far as the past… I believe that it is healthy for you to let it go. If this means taking a break from church in order to do it then so be it. The past is gone and allowing it to sour your present is not helpful. The church had too much power over you in the past, I wonder if the current anger isn’t just the other side of the coin – but still giving the church too much unhealthy influence in your life. Please take a metaphorical step back.
…I believe it is an exercise in letting go of some of the hurt of the past in order to better face the present…
I know it is easier said than done. Good luck my friend.
These last few posts are really powerful and hit home on many levels. I’ve been keeping notes on this as well as my meeting with my Bishop for the past couple days. Not finished yet and there are still some referenced material you all offered I need to read but I’ll stick with it.
I think a step back is long over due but in a way that is understandable to those around me, if possible.
I’ve realized that my thoughts are in order much better than my words. I’ve also realized that difficulty expressing myself comes from being alone, not completely alone but without people around to really talk to from very early in life until well into my 30’s. By that time I was so lacking in communication skills that being a loner was perpetuating itself.
Here at least I can see, organize and try to make sense of my thoughts by writing them down and I’ve really received some good input, more than can be absorbed in a day. There are some really caring people here.
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