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I’m in a new phase of my journey and like all new phases, stages or steps in can be scary and disconcerting. I’m concerned that my SP may be pulling my TR away from me because I have been outspoken on women’s ordination and LGBT issues. We have had a few meetings and he is wanting to know more about some things I have said on FaceBook. I have tried to walk the line of saying that I don’t want to hurt the church but I must also be true to my conscience. I can’t tolerate hate or fear-based mistruths directed at any group of people, Mormon or otherwise. I cant’ tolerate people being descriminated against or second-class citizens or the tyranny of the majority. As a result this has put me at odds with some of the church’s political positions. I think my SP may pull my TR based on the TR question: Do you affiliate with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or do you sympathize with the precepts of any such group or individual? My answer is no because the spirit of the question is do you have loyalty to the church or do you want to see it destroyed and burned to the ground as many ex-Mormons do or do you support polygamy etc. But I think it might be being interpreted in terms of politics and social issues which I tend to be very liberal on and outspoken (not in church) but on FaceBook etc.
I am already struggling with momentum at church. The 3 hours seem to be a little longer. Meetings have become more tiresome. I like going to the temple with DW. I go when I want to and I do find meaning and goodness in it. I like Baptisms For the Dead and being with my children when we do that for our ancestors. If my SP takes my TR away I think it will push me further away from the church. I don’t want that. I just want to be left alone. I am not an enemy of the church. I am not disruptive–certainly not to the same extent as some of my radical conservative or traditionalist brothers and sisters who seem to receive more space in the church. I think if I lose my TR it will be a big barrier in reconstructing my faith and it will be a major barrier in strengthening my marriage.
But I suppose I must be humble and just accept it if it does happen and try to get support here. Perhaps my fears are unfounded and I am worrying over nothing. But I’m starting to feel like I am a target and I have some evidence for it. But we’ll see.
Can anyone relate to what I am saying?
You’re damn right I can relate. I was labeled an apostate for some Facebook posts, and, involvment with apostste groups, including this very website.
Please update…I just got in a spat with some here who say you can disagree with church policy and what the apostles/prophets say, and even openly speak of that disagreement, and still remain a TR active Mormon.
I say you cannot.
So let me know how this SP temple recommend thing goes.
I eagerly await to be proven wrong.
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I’m really sorry for what happened to you Cwald. And I will definitely let you know what happens. My sister’s Facebook posts (like you, she was very quiet at church) were copied by ward busybodies and given to her bishop. Long story short, she no longer has her recommend after more than 20 years of temple attendance. Head Above Water, I understand completely. I like especially the 3rd paragraph: Quote:I am already struggling with momentum at church. The 3 hours seem to be a little longer. Meetings have become more tiresome. I like going to the temple with DW. I go when I want to and I do find meaning and goodness in it. I like Baptisms For the Dead and being with my children when we do that for our ancestors. If my SP takes my TR away I think it will push me further away from the church. I don’t want that. I just want to be left alone. I am not an enemy of the church. I am not disruptive–certainly not to the same extent as some of my radical conservative or traditionalist brothers and sisters who seem to receive more space in the church. I think if I lose my TR it will be a big barrier in reconstructing my faith and it will be a major barrier in strengthening my marriage.
If you SP wants to discuss this further, I would tell him openly & honestly exactly what you said here.
I suspect that he wants to feel comfortable that you haven’t gone off the deep end.
Nothing in your post tells me that you have. We all have issues that we try to resolve. I know members of our bishopric that do.
Keep strong & be true to yourself.
Unfortunately, local leadership reactions are a crap shoot. Shepherds are tasked with protecting the flock, and a big part of that is keeping out the wolves. Unfortunately, defining a wolf in sheep’s clothing is subjective – and too many people see wolves prowling where none exist.
I hope it works out in the end, but you are welcome here no matter what happens. If we haven’t kicked out cwald . . .
😆 It’s a lottery. If I think back at my last 10 bishops it’s about a 50:50 on how they would react to this.
I’ve recently started posting on Facebook groups. Private ones like a thoughtful faith, but still in my name.
I’ve been a lot more reserved in what I say but still somewhat heterodox. Maybe I’ll be more open at a later stage.
I feel like I’m testing my voice. When I post on Facebook I think, ‘if my bishop/family read this, would I be happy defending it.’
I’m a little tired of pretending to be someone I’m not.
Do what is right, let the consequence follow. Now where have I heard that before?
The leadership roulette really hurts when you lose. Let’s face facts – the church itself allies with groups that seek to tear it down where they have a common interest. For example, we do interfaith efforts with churches that seek to tear us down otherwise. It’s one way to soften hearts. We can’t live in a vacuum or an isolated bubble. We seek to grow as a church, right? But some leaders only translate well within the church among the like-minded folks. The church will never grow if they are the only ones in it. I’d try to remind them of that fact. The church needs to be held accountable. We must quit blaming the accused, and the local leaders, for the institutions mistakes.
If the institution says it’s okay to doubt and question, then THEY need to hold local leaders accountable when they push those people out and damage families.
Bishops and SPs must learn that with the internet, they will no longer be able to this kind of thing behind closed doors.
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I think you will be ok now but I don’t think you would have two to three years ago. In a few years your views will be commonplace. Take in Elder Holland’s last conference talk and tell your SP if he has a problem to take it up with Elder Holland. I do feel bad for Cwald because he did come out on the short end. church0333 wrote:I think you will be ok now but I don’t think you would have two to three years ago. In a few years your views will be commonplace. Take in Elder Holland’s last conference talk and tell your SP if he has a problem to take it up with Elder Holland. I do feel bad for Cwald because he did come out on the short end.
I kind of agree with this.
The church has been silently purging heretics, NOMs and square pegged folks for years…thousands of us.
Now the message has been sent that we are welcome, and can doubt and question… Fine. Church. Put up, or shut up.
And quit blaming the people, both the accused, and the local leaders, for the institutions mistakes.
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cwald wrote:
If the institution says it’s okay to doubt and question, then THEY need to hold local leaders accountable when they push those people out and damage families.
+1
Too bad you don’t have more publicity like the MormonThink editor.
Quote:Too bad you don’t have more publicity like the MormonThink editor.
FWIW, I don’t want that type of approach or publicity. I believe he is fighting the Church openly, and I have no desire to do that.
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:Too bad you don’t have more publicity like the MormonThink editor.
FWIW, I don’t want that type of approach or publicity. I believe he is fighting the Church openly, and I have no desire to do that.
I think Mormonthink has played a big role in forcing the church to reform. I have respect and empathy for them, even though I agree with Ray.
I don’t think Head Above Water needs to do anything drastic like that. I think the church has evolved, and they know that the days of doing backroom discipline in the dark, are over. They have to be fair.
I think that is part of the reason they have backed off on Mormon stories and NOM heretics…they know that the world will know.
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And, Head Above Water, were all waiting to hear how church went today. Please come back and update us on your situation. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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