Of Temple Recommends and Short-Term Sales

Hi SD. Even when i was a TMB, or what ever that is(I really dislike titles). I felt this way after having worker in sales, I really started to dislike sales because of the way it felt, so worldly. It would be a few years later that I began to feel the see the exact same feeling and procedure at church but we called it godly. I became confused even as a “TBM”. I could till one from another once I had some years in sakes and board meetings.

I think it really is ran with the same frame of mind. Knowing that most of the bishops and SP and others I have worked with usually come from/work in administrative jobs like banking/lawyer/ etc. probably about 90 % of them. Later I realized that the 15 were also predominately administrative jobs/personality types.

It’s effective business, but terribly impersonal. They will tend to handle see things in like minded way.

I once had a Bishop that was a scientist(seems very rare) but had a very different approach and was more personable.

I tend to see things through a hope perspective, so although it may be from a reactivate and temple recommend push for administration reasons(I see a huge push this year with every 2 weeks being at least 1 temple talk about going to the temple and being worthy/paying tithing and obedience to every month all 3 hour slots ate full of just those talks. It is a bigger push then I have ever seen grueling up where it was a few times a year only. I try to

See it as a example if what happens when we load up the church positions with too many administrative types and the personality become too 1 dimensional and unbalanced(not moderation). It reinforces their thinking as correct without a balanced approach.

As it was repeatedly brought up when trying to bring in a balance the response therefore was that “the lords church is NOT a democracy!” His way or the highway approach.

It feels weird since I have heard those words counties times before but in a different way in my family, military, sales and other jobs. It doesn’t feel very godly to me anymore, really just worldly.

I think it wouldn’t be so if the people with the chain of command(priesthood keys)would be more diverse in job positions and personality types.

Reading through our history when that was so(many different personality types and job types) reveils it seemed to work with many different ideas flowing and putting things in check(balance).

But with so many administrative types running things, it’s likely to be run that way and seem that way as godly without different ideas and ways of thinking presented to put things in balance.

I do my best at work, I even bend over backwards a lot of time, but I am not a yes man.

When things become to impersonal to the point they become distributive I let people know.

Trust and faith goes both ways, without both directions you do not form or have a relationship.

A relationship isn’t formed, personal business , church or otherwise by going one direction. The love, Trust, faith and commitment must go both if any is to succeed and prosper.

When it does it flourishes, when it goes one way it stops being so and feels draining and becomes unsubstainable.

A relationship isn’t formed if people are just there when its trouble or

Even just good times. It’s formed through think and thin, not either/or.

A relationship takes 2. It can not happen from effort with one, or in occasion.

Sustainable positive relationships lead to happiness and fulfillment.

Which is why administrative thinking “feels” tiring to me and most others.

Try to find meaningful sustainable 2 way relationships inside the church and outside as well.

In the end it’s all I personally really needed to ache ice a lasting happiness and well being.

I’m sure that if you presented the duty and exclusivity concept, the leaders would disagree violently (I personally, tend to agree with your asssesment, by the way). They would hate to think they are being exclusive in any way. But I think it’s there given the scriptures that say “many are called, but few are chosen”. Or that only the elect hear the Savior’s voice, etcetera.

I also think the numbers such as “% of endowed members with temple recommends”, “number of convert baptisms”, “percent home teaching” tend to encourage short-run decision-making — much like quarterly earnings reports do for publicly traded companies. The fact that many leaders in the church are managers of some kind (as Forgotten-Charity said), they are used to being evaluated on these metrics.

The problem is that voluntary behavior like tithing, service, etcetera, doesn’t mesh with short-termism. But it looks good in a PPI with a priesthood leader higher up in the hierarchy.

Most members have no professional experience in the areas of counseling and psychology, and that is what you are talking about in this setting. I don’t think they viewed it as a short-term sales goal; I think they viewed it as a core aspect of eternal growth and genuinely were concerned about you but had no clue how to go about talking with you about it in a “professional” way.

Personally, in nearly all cases, I prefer to be as charitable as possible in my judgment of people in these situations and chalk up the awkwardness and inability to nothing more than sincerity coupled with awkwardness and inability. They are trying to do their best, and, in some instances, I don’t things any better than they do in that instance. I have no problem with church leaders asking sincerely but ignorantly about action-based issues, even though I don’t like the WAY they often do so.

Hang in there SD.

Have I mentioned that I’m glad you’re back?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Thanks cWald. Glad to be back. I need this site when things come up that I need to handle. This one went pretty well because I’d already formed opinions and had confidence in them. It was our Stake President, by the way, and not home teachers. Things always seem to go better when you don’t share what you really think….

I think Ray’s perspective is to give them the benefit of the doubt, and be non-judgmental and charitable. I guess that never hurt anyone, although the consensus at home is that they were simply checking the box for when a GA visited them that weekend. And as I might have admitted, I did the same thing to people when I was a priesthood leader. So I guess forgiveness is in order.

the Church wanted local leaders to basically hassle members that no longer have a current temple recommend into getting one again

There really are multiple ways to look at things.

When it comes to temple recommends, I think it used to be the principle of the thing that made it desirable for everyone to have one whether they had a temple that they could attend or not. For the longest time, there were only a few temples around the globe and most members would want to qualify for a temple recommend despite the fact that they couldn’t actually attend the temple except once in their life having saved up for a temple excursion like able-bodied Muslims do in making their one haji to Mecca once in their lives. Now that temples are much more accessible for the average church member, having a recommend is perhaps more practical than it used to be since many more members (I know, not ALL) can actually use their recommend now. But still, I think it has become a cultural thing for everyone to have a recommend (considering they didn’t even EXIST in J.S.’s day) and is not found in scripture that everyone should have one regardless of their ability to attend or not.

Honestly, some people are just really bad at human relations. Having said that, in your situation there is about a 100 more important questions to ask then do you have a temple recommend. Well being of you and your family, (finance, mental, emotional, intellectual). Apologies for having stepped way out of bounds for the divorce remark and speaking to said person that represents the church or bishopric, SP. a lot of things could have been said or done if they care about you or your families welfare other attendance in church or temple.

Having said that, I personally choose not to hold grudges or anger and choose to forgive and choose the path of love and compassion. But just as the church as a “responsibility” to protect its members from “harm”. You also have a responsibility to protect yourself and your family from “harm”. Trust needs to be to reestablished if they actually want a make a sincere amends. Asking about a recommend or anything church related to callings or recommends is out of bounds at this time. Overall welfare is infinitely more important them this. For me personally, in this situation SD cooperation is a must, but it takes both sides. If one isn’t willing to go both ways to meet the needs then a arrangement or established trust can not be reached. You know your situation best.

What ever the “intent” your emotions are valid and I hope they respect it and don’t minimize it.

I enjoy reading your responses because they often reflect a level headed man. I appreciate it.

I guess after my long winded response I hope it didn’t come across as negative. My intent is to try a positive response to this situation. The best short term answer is love one another, and if ye are serving your fellow brothers (sisters)you are only in the service of your god. So no matter where you serve, if you do it with love and compassion for your fellow human you are serving both them and god regardless. To me, that is what this while life is about, I don’t make it any more complicated then that personally, since life is already complicated enough with human interactions.

We are after all a interdependent species. So it’s important to serve each other, but not to be codependent on each other, even the church. When we interdepend we grow, when we develop codependency we stifle as a species. That’s why it’s bad not to think for ourselves but also not to take ideas and advises and help given from others, just not to deiend on them.