Getting released from the HC

Hi Church0333, I’m also sad to hear that. It gave me hope that others were able to talk openly and positively with members from the pulpit about a nuanced faith. It’s seems the SP has effectively buckled to the pressure of those who want a one-dimensional outlook. That’s a shame.

Some days I have a real hope for the future of the LDS church and others… not so much. Just be true to yourself and your family. The message from your release is not that you were in the wrong, but that the people weren’t willing to hear it. Maybe the SP will recognise one day that he has been a little hasty. Non of our leaders, from Joseph down to present day, do the right thing all the time. They will have their decisions affected by the culture, people and environment.

But… he has released you with an endorsement of what you’ve said. He hasn’t made any rebuke, he hasn’t told you that what’s been said was wrong. So keep living and teaching, in whatever your next step is, in a way that you feel is right. “Do what is right, let the consequence follow.”

Church- My heart is with you. Like everyone else here I believe you represented a much overlooked branch of the church. Thank you for your courage. I also want to second On Own Now’s thoughts, even if you take time and are silent at church for awhile, please don’t let this walk you out the door.

When I began supporting a spouse in a faith transition I truly believed there were only 2 options, in or out. I also thought all the faith transitions were based on the same stuff. Over time I’ve learned both assumptions were wrong. With that knowledge I am trying to build my own faith structure and I find, much to my surprise, a larger group of independent thinkers, teachers, and members than I presumed. I look at Ray, Hawkgrrl, MormonHeretic and others on this board. I learn how to present and receive from them. I keep the names of Kristine Haglund, Jana Riess, Gregory Prince, Richard and Claudia Bushman, Grant Hardy and others close to me. Each one of them chose to remain in the active member category. I’m willing to bet they’ve had long stretches of hard climbs. Actually, have spoken to some of them, I know they have. I learn from them and am inspired by them.

You too have inspired me. Your well selected words, your willingness to stand up publicly have been a light to me. May you feel God with you in this transition. Thanks.

church0333, the thought just hit me that perhaps your Stake President would be open to having you be an unofficial resource to help people who are struggling with their faith. Perhaps some kind of official calling can’t happen and/or wouldn’t be the best option, but if you offer to be available to talk with people privately . . .

I have no idea if that might be an option, but I thought I would pass on the thought.

Btw…I put some thoughts in the Universal thread.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Our two talks today were about prophets – quotes about following even if it’s “wrong” because you’ll be blessed for obedience and a word-for-word reading of the 14 Fundamentals.

Ouch. Ouch, ouch, ouch!

The tragedy is that this represents a tiny part of the many perspectives given by leaders on the role of a prophet and yet, for many, is the pervasive attitude to how to follow them.

That’s exactly why we banned blacks from the priesthood for 180 years. It’s wrong, it frustrates me and I completely reject it as an approach to being guided by God. Especially when there’s so much from leaders saying “think for yourself.”

Church 0333

I’m sorry to hear about your release and know how that hurts deeply when you care so much about carrying the message of love and acceptance of others, especially for those that are different. I hope you can take comfort to know that it was simply the SP’s personality to make that decision and many other SPs would have not.

I feel that the conviction of your message runs deep within you, and hope that you continue to be the salt for good within the LDS fold. It is discouraging and lonely at times, and hope you can find comfort to know there are many of us that feel the same way. It is a learning experience.

I was “inactive” (no callings and no HT by choice) for several years while finding my new faith. I’ve just recently agreed to take a HT assignment. How we bounce back, stay and overcome many of the issues is part of finding our new faith. However, I’m encouraged by the messages by a few GAs talks that some are trying to move the church in the right direction and especially change the attitudes of members. At the same time, I’m discouraged by the rigid inflexible conference or manual messages when they invoke that God does not look at sin with the least degree of allowance and saddle their horse on that statement alone.

Since my return to the HP group meetings, I’m slowly learning that there are many others “the salt” that feel and think the way we do and are also trying to express (tactfully) the same message.

Just yesterday in our HP meeting, out of 10 or 11 HP in attendance, 4 of us spoke up and expressed our thoughts and feelings that caused a silent stir or division of opinion among the group members. I had no idea that others felt so deeply the same way I did. The subject and lesson was from Elder Uchtdorf April Priesthood 2013 talk on “Four Titles.”

To share as to what took place in the HP lesson, I simply expressed that I had been guilty in the past because of my upbringing in the church and because of the structure of the church to see people as active or inactive, member or non-member, priesthood holder or prospective priesthood holder, endowed or not endowed, has a calling or doesn’t have a calling, or this person is having trouble with the word of wisdom and even as far as to call or label one an apostate for having differing views.

I must have hit a nerve, because three others and especially one brother was almost brought to tears as he expressed as a youth that he wanted to leave the church because of the labels that were put on him. We spoke privately after the meeting and he expressed that he has stayed because, although it is very slow, he is encouraged by the direction the church is going.

I simple stated in ending my remarks during the lesson, that I think Elder Uchtdorf message is that we need to learn to live within the church structure as an organization but not to become the structure in our relationships with others.

I went home feeling comforted finding others within the HP group for the first time that felt the same way. And what set the stage to allow us to expresses our feelings were the following remarks-words from Elder Uchtdorf that were read during the lesson.

I hope you can take comfort as I share a few of the words read in our HP lesson. (I’ve added a few of my comments how I and others interpret Elder Uchtdorf words)

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God. (That we no longer make others feel like strangers and foreigners regardless of their circumstances or who they are – we are not the church structure – we are all brothers and sisters – regardless of membership or views.)

Elder Uchtdorf words continued: “Unfortunately, none of us quite lives up to everything that this title implies, “for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.” (Let the first one without sin cast the first stone).

“We have all seen a toddler learn to walk. He takes a small step and totters. He falls. Do we scold such an attempt? Of course not. What father would punish a toddler for stumbling? We encourage, we applaud, and we praise because with every small step, the child is becoming more like his parents.

Now, brethren, compared to the perfection of God, we mortals are scarcely more than awkward, faltering toddlers.” (Whether one accepts baptism or not, or may accept baptism but is not yet ready for their next “toddler step” we need not be the judge where someone needs to be in their progression in life.)

“Remember that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is built not for men and women who are perfect or unaffected by mortal temptations…” (Unfortunately, those affected by mortal temptations are made to feel like strangers and foreigners.)

“This is the place for you to be. I hope you can feel the brotherhood that unites us, and I pray that here, among your brothers; you will find belonging, support, and friendship.” (Unfortunately, this is not the case in the church today – this is why we have men like Elder Uchtdorf delivering the message (tactfully) to the rigid judgmental members and leadership.)

(The last words I’ll share from the HP lesson is, in my opinion, a direct effort to move people in the church the right direction. If we get hung up on trying to change the basic church structure – we may be barking up the wrong tree – however, I believe it is possible to let the church be the church and people need to become people, i.e., Christ like).

“But while the Atonement is meant to help us all become more like Christ, it is not meant to make us all the same. Sometimes we confuse differences in personality with sin. We can even make the mistake of thinking that because someone is different from us, it must mean they are not pleasing to God. This line of thinking leads some to believe that the Church wants to create every member from a single mold—that each one should look, feel, think, and behave like every other. This would contradict the genius of God, who created every man different from his brother, every son different from his father.”

“It also contradicts the intent and purpose of the Church of Jesus Christ, which acknowledges and protects the moral agency—with all its far-reaching consequences—of each and every one of God’s children.”

“The Church thrives when we take advantage of this diversity and encourage each other to develop and use our talents to lift and strengthen our fellow disciples.”

“The restored gospel of Jesus Christ blesses lives not just when we believe it—but much more when we live it. It is in the application of gospel principles that individuals are uplifted and families are strengthened. It is our privilege and responsibility not just to talk the talk but also to walk the walk.”

One last comment when trying to share the message to others. I learned that we have to be a light on a hill, but it needs to be a candle light rather than a bright spot light. If our words become a spot light into another’s eyes, it only blinds them more.. The constant example and soft spoken kind words will help to influence others and be that salt that is needed throughout the world and within our circle of influence.

My best to you brother, our message is eternal – it’s daily, it has no end we all continue to evolve.

I’ve already learned – that grass isn’t any greener on the other hill – but each has to come to that knowledge on their own.

Hang in there.

Johari

Sorry to hear….I have been in a similar situation, although not over my talks. Essentially, I compromised local people’s perception of me as a leader. Felt ostracized, disengaged, etcetera.

My piece of advice — remember the world is big, and you have talents that the world needs. Take a leap and find a non-profit or other place where you can dedicate the time you were putting into the church. You will have ZERO tension between your beliefs and what you have to say as you can pick an organization who’s mission aligns with your own beliefs. “Being anxiously engaged in a GOOD CAUSE” is important, and it doesn’t always have to be in, or about the Church.

I did this about a year ago, and my commitment has grown to the point I’m putting in about as much time as I did as a High Priest Group Leader, and I’m three times as passionate about what I’m doing. Loving it. I’m growing in new ways. And by the way, it seems results are coming a lot more easily to me than they did in the church which is a pretty hard sell. You can visit inactives for years and never see anything come of it, Pick a non-profit, and you can make a tangible impact that is rewarding and sustaining — and grow in ways you can’t in the church. And you’ll find there are a lot of very good people from whom you can learn.

And underluying theme in the Church is that we should “not seek after position”, “never say ‘no’ to a calling”, and in my experience, the service of committed members is often taken for granted. Brad Wilcox compares service in the church to a train track, not a ladder. He can mince it all he wants, but there are callings in the church where you simply don’t grow very much after a period of time. Not so when you get to pick the organization and nature of your service.

Think hard about some other cause about which you feel passionate, and dedicate your service there. It’s not about the church all the time, as I have felt many leaders in the church will have you believe.

Best of luck my friend, I empathsize.