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That is what my DH told me. He’s still of the opinion that I need to just “make a decision” about the church. By this, I’m pretty sure he means that I need to decide to be in or out. I’ve told him before that, for now, I want to try to be “in the church but not of the church”. Basically, I still attend, fulfill callings, etc., but I’m doing things on my own terms. I think he’s having trouble with this idea. It’s not that he’s a TBM. He’s stopped wearing garments (I only wear mine on Sundays), agrees with me on handling tithing differently, has no desire to attend the temple, etc. He just keeps insisting that I need to make “my” decision. He implies that if I don’t believe everything and I don’t agree with a lot of what is being said or taught at church, I should just stay home/become inactive. He says the kids could still go to primary if they want to. My thing is, I would never consider completely stopping attendance unless it was a family affair, meaning that we all agreed that was what was best for our family and we all stopped going. I think some of this is coming from him being tired of hearing me talk about church issues or my anxiety or whatever ridiculous comment or lesson we just had in SS or RS. Speaking of which, we had some doozies this past week about how the entire world sets Mormons up on a pedestal and sees us as an example of righteous living because we have the whole truth of the gospel. Yeah, I’m pretty sure the majority of the world population has no idea we exist.
🙄 Anyway…..he feels like I shouldn’t be stressing myself out about things, especially my GD lessons. He sees how much time I put into them and how they take their emotional toll on me and he just doesn’t get why I do it. I tried to explain that I feel like I’m helping people have a deeper, more meaningful Sunday experience. DH just doesn’t think that’s worth the added stress. I kind of have to agree with him a little bit. I thought that because I now only have to teach once every three weeks, it would be easier. But I find myself consumed by thoughts, research, etc. for those entire 3 weeks. I agonize over how to turn the manual into something meaningful and truthful for my class and then I spend a lot of time gathering materials and writing up the lesson plan.
I’m starting the first semester of my master’s program next week. It’s entirely online (my favorite kind of class). I’m also starting to help run as well as occasionally teach a weekly marriage education course in a couple of weeks. Add that to the husband and 4 kids and I feel like I might be at my limit. So, I’m going to give up teaching GD. I haven’t told the bishop yet. I’ll have to this Sunday. He won’t be too happy about it, but I already warned him that once my classes started I might need to step down.
DH has also noticed that Sundays are increasingly difficult for me. I think I mentioned before that I sometimes just get anxiety about going to church at all. Last week, I posted a random question to my friends/family on FB asking how they spend their Sundays and how they feel about them. All of my non-church-going friends and family said how much they love Sundays because they can relax, stay at home, recharge, spend time with family, etc. Those that are LDS of course mentioned that they attend church and then usually spend time with the family. They also said they love their Sundays. Right now, I don’t love my Sundays. We have church in the middle of the day. I spend the morning getting all the kids fed, bathed, dressed, etc. I feel anxious about going to church. After church we usually try to have everyone nap (which I do love, when it happens) and then we have dinner and get everyone ready for bed. I remarked to my husband that sometimes I wish Sundays could just be about our little family. We could wake up whenever, make a big breakfast, spend time playing games, watching a movie, going on a drive or hike, etc. Basically just enjoy the day. Sundays are the only day that we’re all together without any other activities, work, or commitments and sometimes I feel like church takes up a massive chunk of that potential family time. He suggested that we start taking a Sunday off once or twice a month and do just that. Have I mentioned that I ADORE my DH?
So, the other night, when my husband and I were discussing a separate issue in our marriage, he randomly asked me if I’d made my decision yet. I told him this: “My decision, for now, is to take it one Sunday at a time. I’m going to stop teaching GD. I’m still going to attend church, but if we need a break one Sunday, we’ll take a break. We may even schedule breaks ahead of time and plan family adventures. I’m going to ask to be taken off the VT list, as a teacher. I don’t mind being visited, but I need a break from the harping and the monthly guilt trip. I’m going to ask if the RS can get an additional piano player so that I don’t have to feel like I “have” to be there every single week. That’s as much of a decision as I can give you.”
I’m a little sad about giving up GD and my people-pleasing nature is worried about actually asking for the things I mentioned, but I really feel like it’s the best move for me right now.
End of vent. Thanks for reading. I don’t really have any deep question, but as always, I’m open to your thoughts, advice, insights, etc. I always feel better just putting everything out there into the universe. And all of you here at StayLDS make up such a friendly and helpful universe.
The middle way is not easy. MayB wrote:I think some of this is coming from him being tired of hearing me talk about church issues or my anxiety or whatever ridiculous comment or lesson we just had in SS or RS.
It sounds like he cares about you and what you are going through. That is so cool. That is much better than being across the table from a spouse who is calling you to repentance or trying to influence you to be more dedicated. He seems to just want you to be happy.
Unfortunately, it does seem that part of the path or journey takes us through a negative or painful stage, one foot in and one foot out, and it can take some time to find a peaceful way to navigate it.
I don’t have any other advice, only to let you know I know the feeling you have and still holding on to things you love while struggling with things that drive you nutso at church. It is hard. Wishing you the best! Keep us posted.
Knowing that real growth comes almost entirely in the muddle in the middle helps intellectually, but in the moment . . . not so much. I also echo what Heber said. At least it appears that your husband cares for you and wants you to be happy. If stepping away from your GD teaching calling helps lessen the stress and increase your happiness, it’s not a bad thing at all.
Know that prayers and thoughts are with you from lots of friends who care.
Your Husband is awesome. He only wants the best for you, if leaving your hard calling will help than you should. Remember, family is always first. Middle road can be hard but if you have a good support system in place, it will work. I love family trips to the park and big breakfasts on Sunday, they are special. Enjoy your kids while you have them. MayB, There are some commonly held beliefs about the differing approaches of men and women to problem solving… I didn’t invent these, so go easy on me if you disagree, but I have observed them at the very least to be somewhat accurate.
A lot of times, when my wife tells me about problems she’s experiencing, she is telling me this because that is her way to work through the problems… she wants a sounding-board to talk to about these issues, because that is how she solves things: by talking, understanding, adjusting, prioritizing… But a lot of times, when I hear those things, I want to jump in and offer decisive advice to solve the problem more directly… because that’s how I solve things: action (right or wrong). In other words, I think a lot of times, she sees more interconnections among life’s concerns… everything is related in a grand network, and problem solving is an effort in normalizing in order to lessen the impact of one issue while maintaining the benefits of other aspects of life. A lot of times, I look at problems as a cancer that must be removed, and I worry about stitching up the wound later, as a separate problem.
A fairly common saying my wife will offer to me is, “I don’t need you to solve this.” I, conversely, can go nuts when I see what I perceive as her dragging her feet or avoiding… From her perspective, though, she is just taking it one step at a time, like your one Sunday at a time approach, in and effort to feel her way through a problem and to make it settle in an agreeable way. Both perspectives have their strengths and weaknesses. Neither is superior to the other.
Vive la difference!One example from what you’ve described is your teaching GD. If I thought my wife was in a difficult, time-consuming calling, and that her motivation was the good that it would do for others, I would not be able to be happy about it. I know this, because she and I have had this exact conversation. What helps me is when she expresses to me why SHE WANTS to do it, not why it’s beneficial to acquaintances. This gets me out of the solve-it mode.
On Own Now wrote:There are some commonly held beliefs about the differing approaches of men and women to problem solving… I didn’t invent these, so go easy on me if you disagree, but I have observed them at the very least to be somewhat accurate.
Yeah – I want to jump on the men vs. women bandwagon. DW has repeatedly said that I am short with her. Recently when I asked what she meant by that, her example gave me a totally new perspective. She sometimes calls me during the day to complain about someone and if she uses the phrase “this person just doesn’t care” I correct what I view as an unhelpful thought process. I don’t imagine that one can work to improve things starting from the perspective that others don’t care. What she is wanting from me is active listening – not to be corrected.
It’s still going to be difficult to keep my problem solving skills to myself but at least now I know where to begin.
MayB wrote:We may even schedule breaks ahead of time and plan family adventures.
Now that I’ve described for you how my problem solving mentallity drives DW crazy, allow me to offer my problem solving skills.
I haven’t heard anything really enjoyable for you in this post about church participation. I think “why do you do it?” is a valid question. If it is out of a sense of duty to others – then I’m not sure that would be a big enough motivation for me (your own internal need balance may be different than mine.) I feel pretty strongly that investing more into a relationship than one receives is unsustainable over the long term. It sounds like you are already working to limit the organizational demands upon your life. Maybe you should plan 1 sunday per month without church and see how that goes – you would still be considered active and it would give you a chance to check out the non-church sunday.
May- You are not the only unanswerable question. Using your post as my guide, I’ve been both sides of the equation. My husband was the first one into the waters of the faith transition. I assumed, initially, that I could help him sort it all out and get him fixed. My plan didn’t work. He was miles down the slide of knowledge and insights before I could even get started. During that time he did continue to attend, and even tried to stay, but eventually it strained us both. He needed the whole week recover, just to start the process all over. This drained me, too. I couldn’t make him hear, what I heard – or translate how I got through it. Finally I was the one who said – Why are you going? So he stopped. He and I are doing okay with it. The problem now is – 2 fold, one we do miss being a tandem team. We envy our neighbors, even of other denominations, who go to church or out for a hike, or just peacefully function spiritually.
The second problem is I feel compelled to stay. Not because, it’s the only way, not because I think I need it to get Heavenly Father’s approval. I feel compelled to stay because a voice spoke to me during RS one Sunday, when I was having the “Why Do I Stay?” discussion inside my head. The voice said, “I need you here.” I still don’t know what that means. I can only guess, and I have learned my guesses are never what turns out.
The challenge comes through the dual struggle of sitting through lessons and meetings that hurt not just my heart, but the hearts of dear friends and family who feel they can’t stay. I so badly want to shout – “If you want to help the 1 back to the fold, learn what’s getting them lost.” Maybe I’m staying for my active daughter, so that she will have family at her events, like marriage. Maybe I’m staying because Heavenly Father wants me to honor my fantastic parents, who are devout believers. Maybe it’s only to be able to someday say, when this tide of the unknown is past, I stood immovable in the place God put me.
To me you are not unanswerable. Johari had a great line describing the faith crisis model. I don’t have it quoted but it was like three degrees of style. The ones who need to walk away, the ones who hit the rapids and stay, then the ones who have doubts and sip slurpee’s. Good Luck. I think you have given the kingdom a great gift with your lessons.
Poem: Please Listen 2008-07-23 by Gary Jones
Quote:When I ask you to listen to me
and you start giving me advice,
you have not done what I asked.
When I ask you to listen to me
and you begin to tell me why
I shouldn’t feel that way,
you are trampling on my feelings.
When I ask you to listen to me
and you feel you have to do something
to solve my problem,
you have failed me,
strange as that may seem.
Listen! All I ask is that you listen.
Don’t talk or do – just hear me.
Advice is cheap; 20 cents will get
you both Dear Abby and Billy Graham
in the same newspaper.
And I can do for myself; I am not helpless.
Maybe discouraged and faltering,
but not helpless.
When you do something for me that I can
and need to do for myself,
you contribute to my fear and
inadequacy.
But when you accept as a simple fact
that I feel what I feel,
no matter how irrational,
then I can stop trying to convince
you and get about this business
of understanding what’s behind
this irrational feeling.
And when that’s clear, the answers are
obvious and I don’t need advice.
Irrational feelings make sense when
we understand what’s behind them.
Perhaps that’s why prayer works, sometimes,
for some people – because God is mute,
and he doesn’t give advice or try
to fix things.
God just listens and lets you work
it out for yourself.
So please listen, and just hear me.
And if you want to talk, wait a minute
for your turn – and I will listen to you.
If that relates to you at all perhaps this will help, or hopefully in way help your husband to understand you better.
Roy, Your last question was great. I know it was sent to MayB, but it was perfect for me. Just seconds after I asked it to myself a fast list of what I like about church membership/attendance does for me came to mind. Many of them could probably be experienced in other places, but this is my faith tradition and I miss it when it’s completely out of my life.
Thanks for asking her, it helped me.
MayB wrote:So, the other night, when my husband and I were discussing a separate issue in our marriage, he randomly asked me if I’d made my decision yet. I told him this: “My decision, for now, is to take it one Sunday at a time. I’m going to stop teaching GD. I’m still going to attend church, but if we need a break one Sunday, we’ll take a break. We may even schedule breaks ahead of time and plan family adventures. I’m going to ask to be taken off the VT list, as a teacher. I don’t mind being visited, but I need a break from the harping and the monthly guilt trip. I’m going to ask if the RS can get an additional piano player so that I don’t have to feel like I “have” to be there every single week. That’s as much of a decision as I can give you.”
What did he say? (Is he no longer adament that you decide, finally, in or out, and be done?)
You’ve got a full plate, and you
areserving by doing your marriage class. The advice we always hear is to go slow, so one Sunday at a time makes sense. Good luck with it all! You probably don’t want to hear this, but I am a little jealous. Your husband is so supportive and understanding. You can talk about this stuff. I married young as well, have 4 kids, super-righteous parents, family, in-laws, live in Utah, etc. I don’t believe the church is true anymore, maybe some of it is, but we’re def not the one true church. I don’t know if there is a God, or if we can know such a thing. Anyway, for the past year, I’ve still been going to church and teaching primary every Sunday, teaching my kids, trying to talk to my husband, but it’s getting harder to keep up the life that we used to live. The hardest part is that dh went through a similar faith crisis a few years ago, didn’t feel comfortable talking to me about it, and came through with a stronger faith than ever. I honestly have no idea how he did that. He tries to be understanding, but I’m afraid that he’s mostly just waiting for me to get through this and come around to his way of thinking again. I don’t even know that I want things to change that much. I just don’t want to have to raise my own children with the level of orthodoxy that I was raised with, or that we were planning on when we got married. I feel like I’m so enmeshed in the church, it would be hard to leave completely (plus it would kill my parents), but I hope that if my kids don’t believe, that it will be easier for them to slip away. Am I a huge hypocrite or what?
Thanks for sharing your experiences MayB, it is helpful to see what others are going through as I navigate this huge life-changing transition.
Thanks for all of your great, thoughtful responses. Many of you mentioned my husband just wanting me to be happy. I think that is really at the core of it. He sees me trying to figure things out and hears me venting my frustrations or talking about church issues and he sees that it’s causing me pain. I appreciate the thoughts on the differences between men and women in communicating and problem-solving. I can appreciate that he’s trying to fix what he sees as my problem by pushing for decisions and action, but that doesn’t mean I have to like it, right? 
Roy wrote:I haven’t heard anything really enjoyable for you in this post about church participation. I think “why do you do it?” is a valid question. If it is out of a sense of duty to others – then I’m not sure that would be a big enough motivation for me (your own internal need balance may be different than mine.) I feel pretty strongly that investing more into a relationship than one receives is unsustainable over the long term. It sounds like you are already working to limit the organizational demands upon your life. Maybe you should plan 1 sunday per month without church and see how that goes – you would still be considered active and it would give you a chance to check out the non-church sunday.
I think we will start planning one Sunday a month to be church-free and see how it goes. You’re right, Roy. I don’t enjoy church at all right now. I don’t feel any spiritual benefit from it, which my old TBM self would say is all my fault. Maybe I’m just burned out. I feel like I need to step back a bit to find some perspective and figure out what relationship I want to have with the church.
Southern wrote:You probably don’t want to hear this, but I am a little jealous. Your husband is so supportive and understanding. You can talk about this stuff. I married young as well, have 4 kids, super-righteous parents, family, in-laws, live in Utah, etc. I don’t believe the church is true anymore, maybe some of it is, but we’re def not the one true church. I don’t know if there is a God, or if we can know such a thing. Anyway, for the past year, I’ve still been going to church and teaching primary every Sunday, teaching my kids, trying to talk to my husband, but it’s getting harder to keep up the life that we used to live. The hardest part is that dh went through a similar faith crisis a few years ago, didn’t feel comfortable talking to me about it, and came through with a stronger faith than ever. I honestly have no idea how he did that. He tries to be understanding, but I’m afraid that he’s mostly just waiting for me to get through this and come around to his way of thinking again.
I don’t even know that I want things to change that much. I just don’t want to have to raise my own children with the level of orthodoxy that I was raised with, or that we were planning on when we got married. I feel like I’m so enmeshed in the church, it would be hard to leave completely (plus it would kill my parents), but I hope that if my kids don’t believe, that it will be easier for them to slip away. Am I a huge hypocrite or what?
Southern, I feel like we’re kindred spirits! I’m sorry that your husband isn’t being more understanding and supportive with you. I was actually very surprised that my husband has been so great. He didn’t take it too well at first, but he came around pretty quick and has been wonderful ever since. I have the same concerns about my children as you do. I worry about the way some things are being taught to them, even in primary. I don’t want them to experience some of the things I did or to think the way I used to think or to judge themselves and others the way I used to. I wish there were such a thing as casual church participation, but it seems like if you’re not 100% drinking the kool-aid you’re labeled as inactive or unworthy. Leaving completely, for us, would cause huge family strain and stress due to ultra-TBM in-laws. I know exactly how you feel.
MayB, Whatever you choose, you know you have friends here. I hope for the best for you and your family.
A couple of thoughts:
MayB wrote:Leaving completely, for us, would cause huge family strain and stress due to ultra-TBM in-laws.
First, it’s probably not as bad as you envision. When I “came out” I expected fallout. I received love, compassion, understanding. It’s not true for everyone, but it was true for me. Second, staying to avoid a poor reaction from your in-laws isn’t a good reason to stay, IMO. If you stay, it should be because you find some intrinsic value in it. Staying to support a spouse or children is often worth it by itself, but in-laws, parents, brothers and sisters, uncles and aunts, neighbors, I would put in an entirely different category. You should stay or go because of the spiritual needs or lack thereof for you, your husband and your children.MayB wrote:I need to step back a bit to find some perspective and figure out what relationship I want to have with the church.
Sounds like a good plan. I would encourage you to focus on the relationship you want to have with God, rather than with the Church. A person in our situation should figure out what they want to do spiritually, THEN figure out what part the Church plays in that for them. If it provides a framework to help them with theirr spirituality, great, if not, that’s fine too. The Church or any church should be there for our spiritual support, it isn’t the mediator between us and God.
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