Insights please

– his family is very strong in the church, he was born into it

– has a testimony, fully believes in the church, has no faith crisis, he doesn’t read or study so I doubt he even knows of all the inconsistencies in history etc

– believes that he will go back one day, just not ready yet

– enjoys the people, the classes, the activities when he goes

– goes away on golfing holidays with a group if high priests/bishops/etc and does all the right things

– wants children to go to church and be fully active

– happy for wife to as well and encourages/supports (well that’s what comes out of his mouth!)

I wish I could have had those things with my DW. I would do just about anything for my Wife to do the things quoted.

I have some of his traits, unfortunately.

All I can do is share how I feel…I stopped respecting some of the administrative rules of the church a while ago after I grew a bit cynical based on real life experiences. I am always fighting irreverence in church because I find it so boring and totally against everything I have been taught and practice as a teacher (that people are engaged when there is interaction, DOING, not sitting and listening to often poorly prepared or novice speakers).

Don’t know if he’s had some landmark experience that shook his commitment and respect for the administrative or customs in our church, but that is what happened to me.

I still hope to get fully committed again, but just not now.

Hmmn…similar to me. My landmark experience involved behavior of members and leaders who behaved in ways that floored me, left me feeling used and unsupported. And this was after they had made covenants to not “speak evil of the Lord’s annointed”. I questioned why I should give all this time and effort an undying obedience to the system and my leaders when the system did nothing to ensure I received the same kind of respect.

He may be consciously trying to make sure he doesn’t get another calling by acting that way, and may be mirroring the lack of respect he felt he received.

Or perhaps this is his way of expressing the frustration he felt at the time. I hate to admit, but I feel that way myself in church — irreverent and wanting to go against the grain and cultural norms. Perhaps because I feel the members hurt me badly by doing the same, in their own way?

After the Landmark experience, I sat next to my wife and was cracking jokes about the meeting throughout (quietly). Very sarcastic but also kind of funny.

It made her angry (although amused at the same time) but for some reason it was therapeutic for me to suddenly free myself from the norms that I’m expected to obey while the members ran roughshod over me as a leader — in direct violation of those very norms. Occasionally I have been irreverent with the kids. I did something last week that was unconscious that I’m sort of embarrased about when I think of it. It showed me how far away I’d gotten from our cultural roots. (We were in the sacred grove at Palmyra, and I did something pretty irreverent and only realized it afterwards).

So, these things may have become habits for him because he doesn’t care anymore. I personally find myself caring less and less whether my kids grow up active, for reasons I won’t go into. He may have coped by divorcing himself from being a part of the community. At the same time, he has spiritual experiences and does not want to cut himself off from returning if he chooses.

So, what do you do about it?

I invite others to comment. The goading from my wife helps. I know she is going to disapprove and so that quells my bad behavior. You could proceed and indicate you would rather he sat out in the hall and listened or joined your after Sacrament meeting when the kids are in their meetings. You could sit down and tell him that this is interefering with your marriage and hope he cares enough about that to change.

Also, learn about the schema he is operating from. He seems to be on the “keep options open” plan like me. Let him know if that if he hopes to return some day, he needs to invest in at least preserving a sense of reverence lest he gradually erodes to the point of not caring.

And if he ever wants to PM me here, I can talk to him. He can expect me NOT to try to change him in any way, but to simply talk about how he feels. I feel much in common with him.