When we talk of others…

Apparently our WC is pretty bland. In all of the meetings I ever attended (as counselor in the bishopric & YMP), we never discussed members of the ward at all. We did, of course, in the old ward welfare meetings, but never in the way you seem to indicate – we really discussed welfare needs and how to meet them. I would have issues, as you do, if I thought people were secretly talking about me and/or my family in WC. How comfortable are you with talking openly to your bishop? I might consider that. I know the hand books says “Plan ways to strengthen individuals and families,” but it sounds like what’s happening there might be a bit outside that.

Both my husband and I have been in leadership positions and in ward council for several years now (taking turns with various callings).

We’ve sat in WC, PEC, bishopric meetings, missionary meetings, etc where we discussed ward members.

I never thought about the … well, I don’t have the word … the weirdness of it until recently when I learned that *I* was discussed in WC. lol. My name wasn’t mentioned, but it was more like “a sister did this…” and the reply of “well, she shouldn’t have done that…fix it.”

Later, the members of WC (the same one who used to sit with ME in wc) filed out of the room and plastered on their innocent smiles and made out to be my friends.

It. rubbed. me. the. wrong. way!

I get that when there is a welfare need, the bishop and RS Pres should handle it in private.

I get that when there is a need and the entire WC needs to be involved that it can be discussed to find a solution (but I think that person better know they are a topic of discussion).

I get that the missionary effort needs to be name-specific.

But … and those who are better with words need to help me articulate my thoughts here …

Suddenly, I’m thinking that it is quite hypocritical to officially discuss ward members and then pretend that they aren’t discussed.

We ALL talk about our ward brothers and sisters – especially when they irritate us, so we are all just as guilty of the fake “I’m-your-best-friend” smile as WC members. Maybe I’m holding ward leadership to a higher standard?

Is this backbiting?

Ugh – trying to get my thoughts straight here…

help?

I’m now wanting to fly so low under the radar that ward leadership totally forgets that I am even there…which goes against all of my thinking. I’m the kind to help when there is a need…always volunteer…etc.

Where is the happy medium and am I making any sense? :problem:

I have learned a few things that guide me:

1. That the church wards tend to be loyal to you when you are following the textbook pattern for being a good member. As soon as you deviate from that pattern, then they turn on you. I was a HPGL for a while, and then ask for a release. Rather than talk to me about it, a member of the BP went behind my back to my wife for information. He even implied that she tell me that if I didn’t straighten up, she should leave me — as his wife told him when he grew disaffected.

2. There is no confidentiality in the church. Bishops may keep things confidential that they learn one on one, but even that information leaks to WC and PEC now and then. The ward leaders are not professionals, and they don’t have a professional code of ethics to follow. For some, the confidential information to which they are privvy is the most excitement they have had the whole week. Therefore, a lot of confidential information gets leaked to their spouses, sometimes their children, and sometimes, the whole ward.

3. The church culture and norms of behavior are very powerful. I personally don’t like having deep involvement in an organization where there is a strong culture and a wide-ranging prescription of acceptable behavior. There is too much pressure to conform and behave a certain way. Further, the stronger the cultural values, the weaker the interpersonal loyalty. Better to have a community that has a set of minimal values that celebrates tolerance and loyalty to individuals over loyalty to the organization.

So, I agree with you. In our family, we manage our communications to the leaders and the Ward very carefully. My main circle of friends are outside the church now, where friendship is a result of interpersonal interests, not value-laded organizational ties that bind us.

I think most people are like you, though, they don’t feel it’s awkward until they realize it’s them being discussed.

When we started attending another ward some years ago (while we were still zoned in our original one). Our bishop called us in for an interview. In that interview he said that some had said that we had made the switch to sleep in on Sunday, others that we wanted to attend other denominations in the morning. So he had responded to them, “Well I’ll just pull them in for an interview and find out what is what.”

We never did tell him that our 6 year old daughter was being bullied by a classmate. Pointing the accusatory finger at another 6 year old on our way out just didn’t seem right.

I know that I have been discussed in WC because I have been part of a “Rescue” effort on at least two occasions. (I didn’t realize it at the time, I only recently discovered the program.) I’m not really upset about that – I don’t want to be anyone’s project and I don’t want a friend who has been assigned to me, but I see this as the WC doing their job. FWIW, I must have been recycled to the bottom of the list both times because neither ward council member came back.

So for me the bottom line with this issue is, were they really doing their jobs, or were they just gossiping? Did they discuss beyond what needed to be discussed?

Either way, my experience has been much like SD’s and I have reached the same conclusions. When I went inactive I could hear the crickets chirp – no contact at all for a few weeks, then a couple sweet souls did come by but it was short lived. Basically I felt (and still feel) that if I wasn’t there they really didn’t care – I learned who my friends were(n’t). Likewise, I learned the leadership (SP & bishop) kept nothing confidential.

I have to admit when I first heard that people were discussed in meetings like these I was horrified! As a manager in my previous job, confidentiality was/is very high on my list of essentials and I felt that these councils went against that. Not much to do about it though so I try and ignore that it happens.

Though I am sure our family is the current project. One of the High Priests went out of his way ie chased us out of the chapel, a few weeks ago to introduce himself to my husband and organise a game of golf – the true way to his heart I then remembered a comment I made jokingly to one of the bishopric at a social function a while back about how husband would possibly be active if golf was allowed in Sundays. They are going to the driving range at lunch time today and have organised a game for next Monday afternoon. I don’t know if my husband realises what is going on 😆 I am sure he will get the light bulb moment soon.

In all of the meetings I ever attended (as counselor in the bishopric & YMP), we never discussed members of the ward at all. We did, of course, in the old ward welfare meetings, but never in the way you seem to indicate – we really discussed welfare needs and how to meet them.

I think as DJ points out…this is going to vary widely based on the leadership roulette we experience from ward to ward.

Early in 2008, as my family went through a crisis, I was released from my YM calling, as the bishop felt my focus needed to be at home with my family. I welcomed the release, but specifically requested they don’t pray for my family in council, as I felt it would be better to have privacy respected. I believe it was for some time.

A change in leadership brought a different leadership style, and some zealous efforts to reach out to families in the ward whose attendance has slipped, as my family’s had. I know we were specifically discussed, as YM, YW, and different leaders were given goals to visit our house. There was some good that came of it, as my teenage kids felt that people do care about them.

It felt strange to me, and definitely feels like when I know I’m a project…ugh…I just don’t like it. I just tried to remember the intentions were probably good ones, and appreciate it that people reached out.

But what I’ve learned from my work where I run projects all day is that a project ALWAYS has a start and an end to it (or else it is not a project). So, as I continued on taking care of my family needs, the project seemed to end. My true friends in the ward are still there, but the project work efforts weren’t sustainable…they move on to the next situation after a while because the councils are trying to focus and help the leaders get some action done…and there will be other more important things to focus on after a while.

This is easily my number one pet peev of our church culture. And it’s almost always in direct response to a witnessed lapse of what I call the “visible sins.” Those “sins” would include things like WoW observance, Sunday activities, and church attendance (inactivity). I’ve mentioned before in that I’m an intensely private person. We’ve lived in our current home for over 10 years. When we moved in I told my wife that I didn’t care what she talked about with her neighbor friends, but under no circumstances was she to talk about bedroom matters or money. Believe it or not, this actually did limit her social circle in the ward at first. But then at that time we had a bunch of insecure catty gals who have since moved on to greener (as in the color of money) wards.

I’ve been in some of these so-called welfare meetings or ward councils in various roles. I noticed how word almost ALWAYS got out. This is why I’ve told my wife long ago (and recently my new bishop) that the first time I hear that I’m on a list will also be the last time. Just prior to the EQ reorganizations I noticed that random and casual ward “friends” of mine were making an effort to seek me out. Invariably the topic would come back to getting me to attend EQ more often (I’m there 1 to 2 times a month at most, and that’s I’m in town). I didn’t like the feeling. It felt forced. It was a clear signal that I’m being talked about.

I do understand that for many, if not most, the outreach from one member to another is sincere. I just wish more of it was, and that there was less judgment. I know that this is something I’m working on (judgment), and trying to see the good in everyone.