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It’s Fast and Testimony meeting. I’m sitting in the pews, listening and smiling as a parade of friends and ward members file to the pulpit to share experiences, inspiring thoughts, travelogues, and occasionally messages about Christ. That’s when it happened.
A sister in the ward (not a local – don’t remember which part of “out west” she hails from) approaches the pulpit to bear her testimony of The Brethren. She said that we can’t see Christ ourselves but The Brethren (always capitalized!) are Christ to us.
I was torn, should I smile and nod or take our my rosary and pray “Hail Dieter, full of grace. The Lord is with thee…”
The Brethren are our intermediaries because we poor saps can’t have a personal relationship with God?
I shuddered remembering that the children of Israel likewise felt God was unapproachable and demanded Moses act as their go-between and I remember where that got them.
Don’t get me wrong. I actually have quite a bit of respect for the folks tasked with running this church but this cult of The Brethren is disturbing on more levels than I can count.
Those are some of my favorites, too. 
“Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them” Numbers 11:29.On the flip side, I have come to realize that each individual clings or fights with the church over their own vision of it. We have a woman in our ward who’s full commitment to the church stems from the Living Prophet connection. She was Catholic and I think would love to still be, if our Living Prophet wasn’t around. My guess is your sister is the same.
You know maybe we should start a thread of interesting testimonies we hear, then again maybe not.
Most of all – Welcome Back.
I don’t have much to add other than I absolutely agree with you. It’s our personal relationship with Christ and our Heavenly Father that matters not our collective relationship. We do not and will never need a go between as you mentioned. It’s sad that others feel that way sometimes. Quote:She said that we can’t see Christ ourselves but The Brethren (always capitalized!) are Christ to us.
😮 😯 :wtf: Luckily, I’ve never heard that said in church my entire life – and I know “The Brethren” would be extremely uncomfortable with it.
I really loathe that statement, but I figure if I talked with every member I would hear lots of things I loathe – and I also figure I would say some things that someone, at least, would loathe.
I agree …. urgh! I haven’t heard any quite that bad, but it was father’s day here this week and some of them were bordering on it.
Though to add a little lightness, I do find some of the testimonies about “brethren” quite amusing. One of the older ladies recalled how her relationship with the priesthood holder in her home improved substantially after this …. he had her at his beck and call and called one day to say he was running late for lunch and to put it in the oven. So she followed his “counsel” and did so. … It was salad! The whole chapel cracked up
Ray, I sure hope the Brethren would disapprove! I’m pretty sure most of them would.
Conflicted,
My husband always says that the best way to get even with a bad boss is to do
exactlyas he says. I have found that to be a useful tactic at some points in my life but I’m not sure that even I could ruin a perfectly good salad. Hahaha! What a great story! Great OP. I think there are some people who take great comfort in being able to have an earthly object of veneration and inspiration – both in Mormonism and among the Gentiles. I think it’s actually a much easier faith that way – if you believe that Tommy Monson and his buddies actually see and speak with Christ on a routine basis regarding the affairs of the Church, you don’t have to do much thinking on your own. You can just take in hook, line and sinker everything they say. Being more rational is actually harder – you have to take everything they say and actually expend some energy and put some brain cells into deciding whether you agree or find value in something THE BRETHREN have said. So in a sense I think a Stay LDS perspective is a more mature, nuanced faith than the uber-TBM you described. I think my testimony of the Church’s leadership would be something like “I know that the Church is lead by good men who are trying their best to steer a very large ship through a variety of hazards. Overall I think they’re doing as good a job as could be expected – they’re certainly not perfect, but I think they’ve got good intentions.”
I don’t think this kind of testimony is uncommon at all. When I was active, and growing up, I heard this type of theme all the time in SM and Sunday School and PM, and on a mission from other missionaries.
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I wonder how many people left the meeting prepared to repeat that falsehood to other impressionable people? People have heard that church leaders “are Christ” to us? Seriously? [
Admin note: Please don’t refer to church leaders using names that read as sarcastic or dismissive, even if they aren’t meant that way. Pres. Monson is not “Tommy Monson” anywhere but in the stories he tells of his childhood. This request is simple common courtesy.] Old-Timer wrote:People have heard that church leaders “are Christ” to us? Seriously?
]
Yeah. This type of belief and philosophy about prophets is not uncommon.
“By my mouth or the mouth of my servants, it is the same.” That is Mormon doctrine…at least it was the last time I was active.
Are you doubting my honesty? Or are you asking a rhetorical question?
Prophet worship is alive and well in the LDS Church. I think M&G nailed it in the OP about the similarities of religions today and the Israelites history/myths of the OT.
And, I’m not blaming the Q15 for it necessarily.
And mormons are not alone, not the only Christians guilty of such sin.
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cwald, you know me well enough to know I wouldn’t question your honesty. Period. I understand “whether by mine own voice or the voice of my servants” – but I have never heard anyone say, “The brethren are Christ to us.” “Our leaders speak for Christ,” is not the same things as, “Our leaders are Christ.”
I know that sounds like nit-picking, but I just haven’t heard anyone say, “Our leaders are Christ to us” – and that was the quote from the testimony. I think if the woman had said, “Our leaders speak for Christ,” it wouldn’t have made it’s way into a post here, since it would have been a common statement (even if we tend not to believe it as a comprehensive statement here) – and I certainly wouldn’t have said I haven’t heard anyone say that.
Also, just to continue to nit-pick
Old-Timer wrote:[
Admin note: Please don’t refer to church leaders using names that read as sarcastic or dismissive, even if they aren’t meant that way. Pres. Monson is not “Tommy Monson” anywhere but in the stories he tells of his childhood. This request is simple common courtesy.] As much as I’m an “apostate” and the most censored participant on the board, I actually agree with this.
I’m sure no offense was meant.
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Old-Timer wrote:cwald, you know me well enough to know I wouldn’t question your honesty. Period.
I understand “whether by mine own voice or the voice of my servants” – but I have never heard anyone say, “The brethren are Christ to us.” “Our leaders speak for Christ,” is not the same things as, “Our leaders are Christ.”
I know that sounds like nit-picking, but I just haven’t heard anyone say, “Our leaders are Christ to us” – and that was the quote from the testimony. I think if the woman had said, “Our leaders speak for Christ,” it wouldn’t have made it’s way into a post here, since it would have been a common statement (even if we tend not to believe it as a comprehensive statement here) – and I certainly wouldn’t have said I haven’t heard anyone say that.
Yes, I agree. I specifically said “belief”, “theme” and “philosophy.”
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While I haven’t heard these things grownimh up in the church. I have heard them no less then a dozens times this year in sacrament talks and F&T meeting. It is uncomfortable to say the least.
The last talks and testimonies about “temple” and “obedience” even had a few people talking not only the brethren but the bishop and SP are modern Christ to us. That they help forgiveness and are modern
Christ examples and do what Christ would do, so they ate effectively Christ I’m our eyes and represent everything he did.
I don’t know why I am heating it so much lately in sacrament meeting talks especially on temple attendance worthiness and obedience as well as F&T.
Is this a new culture, how come I never heard it growing up but here it a ton this year? It makes me shutter and wince.
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