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This is a long story that I’m going to try to put into words and I ain’t a wordsmith, so there could very well be some misunderstandings as I describe why I’m here. I grew up in a small mormon town, served a mission (I call it my two-year torture, always have, even while serving). The mission was more of an expected term than anything else. Since then I have told every single young man who I work with to only go if “they” want to go. I struggled with church while in college, but mostly I thought it was “the people”. After a few years I realized it wasn’t “the people”, it was something else. I kept going. I moved across the country and found that the church was more bearable outside the 4-mormon-state-area, but just that more bearable. I eventually found my love and got married in the temple, just like you are supposed to. I “felt” inspired to marry her, but now looking back it was just love. Simple as that and nothing more. After a year or so we decided to have a child. This wasn’t an “inspired” decision, it was a nature taking it’s course of desiring children. The birth and of my little girl was awesome! I have never regretted getting married or having children. My wife, which I knew would happen, suffered from Post Traumatic Stress from the pregnancy and birthing processes. This I was ready and watching for the signs. I got her help, but that help was ludicrous at best. They got the government involved. This is where the story takes a twist. I was trying to follow “my feelings”, just like I was taught in church. I prayed, I fasted, I attended the temple. I did what my “feelings” said to do. I GOT SCREWED! The government just kept getting worse and worse and worse. They took my child from us 2 times. I fought like no other for her. What saved her and me? It wasn’t my feelings. I eventually said, Screw You Feelings. I switched gears and went to logic. Once I did that, I got rid of the government, got my child back. My family (siblings) were awesome. My oldest sister knew just what to do and told the judge the truth and knocked CPS in the head. My “feelings” kept telling me to tell the truth and disclose everything. It also told me to work with the government, well that just made things worse. After I listened to my sister and my head, I moved my family near my siblings. This pissed off the CPS workers, but overtime and with help from my sister and mom we got rid of them and we are now one little happy family.
My problem with the whole thing, which has led me down this path 5 years later, is that my feelings were WRONG. Was it me who read the feelings wrong or is the feelings that are wrong?
Currently I’m a little disenfranchised with the whole “feeling” the spirit thing, which has driven me to not attend sunday school or priesthood. Now I’m wondering what else is wrong and what else was I told that isn’t right. I can get over mistakes of man, that is easy. What I’m having a tough time with is there really a god or is this all an illusion.
That is my introduction.
Welcome and glad you found the group. Your story feels similar to my experience in a different set of circumstances, and caused me to go through a crisis period myself. Its a painful time. But hang in there, there are things you can learn from it. And you can survive it.
What are your thoughts on the times when Joseph Smith had feelings and they were wrong? If he was pretty close to God and that happened, surely we would also have that happen to us. How does that make sense to you?
Welcome. I know people who have gone through similar things, and I am glad you have been able to come through it with family intact. I love the concept of studying things out in our hearts AND in our minds – that God will speak to us through both, not just through feelings. So many members don’t take that message seriously, but it’s part of our scriptural canon.
Welcome. I can truly relate to your story, it was in a big way following my feelings (which I truly thought were promptings of the Spirit) that led to my crisis of faith as well. That was over 10 years ago, and I haven’t gotten over that yet – but I have learned to cope without relying on those feelings. I still don’t know how to discern spiritual promptings from just plain emotions and I don’t know that I will in this lifetime. The old “if it’s good then it’s OK” advice doesn’t work – I was doing good things and got a bad result. So, hang in there. Logic and thoughtful decisions might take longer, but you aren’t worse off. You’ll find that many of us here relate very well to what you are feeling, and just knowing that has given me hope. You and I are not alone in the world, nor are we alone in the Church – it just seems that way until you come here.
Heber13 wrote:What are your thoughts on the times when Joseph Smith had feelings and they were wrong? If he was pretty close to God and that happened, surely we would also have that happen to us. How does that make sense to you?
I hadn’t really considered this before, Heber. Can you give us some examples? This intrigues me.
Jazernorth wrote:. . . . over time and with help from my sister and mom we got rid of them and we are now one little happy family.
My problem with the whole thing, which has led me down this path 5 years later, is that my feelings were WRONG. Was it me who read the feelings wrong or is the feelings that are wrong?
Hi, Jazernorth – Glad you’re here with your family intact. A lot of people here are asking themselves the same questions. If you hunt around, you’ll find lots of personal experiences and wise advice. Bottom line for me, I woke up and started using my head more. Then I looked around at church and realized lots of people have been doing this all along. I’m a little angry that it took me so long. Jacob 3:11 “…arouse the faculties of your souls….” I take that to be my mind and my heart.
Best wishes to you and your family as you continue on. I think this site will really help.
Jazernorth wrote:is there really a god or is this all an illusion.
Nobody on this site is qualified to answer that long-standing human question. But I would offer that whether or not there is a God, there is Good. I think many here find that it is easier to believe in Good, because that is something that is knowable. Many here find that the Church provides a framework for believing in Good.Whereever this takes you, just know that you are not alone, and by that I mean that this community shares much of your experience.
All – Thank you. So far this has given me something to think about. It will take me a day or two to answer follow up questions, but since I’m trying to figure this out there will be answers to the questions.
Again, thank you.
I have never found feelings and emotion to be very reliable for me. Others have better luck with it. I do tend to be an instinctive decision maker, but I just make connections quickly and come to conclusions – I don’t do it based on feelings. In fact, I often have to remember to ask myself how I feel about something because logic has always been my go to, and it’s not fallible either. What can I say? Raised on Star Trek, I guess. A little bit Kirk and a whole lot Spock. Well now, see, the scriptures do talk about studying things out in our minds first and then talk to God about it. So I think if we’re ONLY following our feelings we’re skipping the reasoning part of the equation which is not a good thing. DarkJedi wrote:That was over 10 years ago, and I haven’t gotten over that yet – but I have learned to cope without relying on those feelings. I still don’t know how to discern spiritual promptings from just plain emotions and I don’t know that I will in this lifetime. The old “if it’s good then it’s OK” advice doesn’t work – I was doing good things and got a bad result.
How do you deal with Sunday School and Priesthood (or RS)? I get very uncomfortable being there because I don’t “feel” the spirit. To me, it is just another class, the same as any school class.Heber13 wrote:What are your thoughts on the times when Joseph Smith had feelings and they were wrong? If he was pretty close to God and that happened, surely we would also have that happen to us. How does that make sense to you?
I guess I missed this part in church.hawkgrrrl wrote:I have never found feelings and emotion to be very reliable for me. Others have better luck with it. I do tend to be an instinctive decision maker, but I just make connections quickly and come to conclusions – I don’t do it based on feelings. In fact, I often have to remember to ask myself how I feel about something because logic has always been my go to, and it’s not fallible either. What can I say? Raised on Star Trek, I guess. A little bit Kirk and a whole lot Spock.
I understand that. Thanks!Just reading the comments so far, is making me feel a tidbit better. I find myself listening to a lot of talk radio (yes, I’m a talk junkie), and some of that is the local religious talk radio. There are many times that what they are saying makes a whole lot more sense than things I learned in church. I have always been OK with that because even when I was younger I knew that other people have good answers. My parents listened to Zig Zigglar. Anyone have suggestions on Sunday School and Priesthood? I can barely make it through Sacrament, but that has always been the case since I was still wearing diapers.
I also refuse to teach any class or give talks in church. I have no problem saying no. My problem is that when asked this goes through my head:
Do I believe what I would be teaching?
No. (generally because I don’t know what is in the lessons and I don’t want to be caught off guard).
Should I fake it and teach the class?
No.
Why?
Because my integrity says I do not teach anything I don’t believe.
Once that goes through my head, I say no to any teaching request.
I sat through primary and whatever the class part is called with CTR-4 and played games because I didn’t believe what was being taught and they “really” needed a teacher. So I sat in there and played games the whole time.
The last talk I gave in church was 1.25 minutes long (OK, I don’t know the exact time, but it was short). I got up, introduced myself, talked about guns and computers (subjects I know very well), then sat down. To be fair though, I warned the person who asked me to talk that I won’t talk on a subject I don’t know anything about. They said “learn”. I said – OK, you asked for it. The bishopric member had to fill up 20 minutes of time. I’m not sure if he was mad or not, but they never asked me again.
Don’t get me wrong here, I don’t feel bad or regret saying no to anything. What I wonder and have a hard time with is the through process, then wondering afterwards why do I not believe it and if I don’t believe it why do I keep coming back to church. I know it stems back to the experience with CPS and the feelings, so I that is where I started with this discussion. I also continue because statistically children raised in a good church environment become better adjusted and good adults, so I force myself for my child. I would like to get back to the way I was, before then. Not the blind or just following the feelings person, but the person who mostly liked to attend church…… I think, or at least that makes the most sense to me… I dunno, I’m still on the fence on that one I guess.
Sorry for the ramblings there at the end. Like I said in my first post, I ain’t a word smith.
I have felt like a bit of an alien at church pretty much my entire life. Frankly, that helps, since I don’t expect or really want to feel like everyone else. I’ve been different so long I don’t know what I’d do if I suddenly was normal. 
Hi Jazernorth. I do relate to your feelings about speaking & teaching in church. Before I stopped going to church I asked to be released from my GD teaching position because I felt I couldn’t teach that which I didn’t believe. I also think SS & PH meetings are more difficult than SM because there’s so much more input from class members who like to repeat non-doctrine as doctrine. I’m sorry that I didn’t make it clear to you that I haven’t been to church in over 10 years, but I am on the verge of returning. My plan upon return (as outlined in my own introduction) is to attend only SM and to not accept any calling or invitation or pray or speak – like you, I have no problem saying no. While being on this site has given me some encouragement about the possibility of returning to SS & PH at some point in the future, I’m not sure how long that process may take and it’s possible it may not happen at all. If you don’t feel good about going to SS or PH, don’t go. While my plan is to actually leave the building and go home, in my experience there are plenty of skippers in the foyers or sitting in cars in the parking lot if you feel you must stay. DarkJedi wrote:While my plan is to actually leave the building and go home, in my experience there are plenty of skippers in the foyers or sitting in cars in the parking lot if you feel you must stay.
I used to hang out in my truck, but that was when it took 30 minutes to drive to church and we all went together in the same car. Now I’m about 5 minutes away, so I go home.Quote:Heber13 wrote:
What are your thoughts on the times when Joseph Smith had feelings and they were wrong? If he was pretty close to God and that happened, surely we would also have that happen to us. How does that make sense to you?
Jazernorth wrote:I guess I missed this part in church.
DarkJedi wrote:I hadn’t really considered this before, Heber. Can you give us some examples? This intrigues me.
If you read Rough Stone Rolling, you can see several examples where Joseph was following his feelings only to find out they didn’t always work out. The Kirtland Bank, running for government offices, calling certain holy men to high church offices to have them betray him, giving Martin Harris the draft of the 116 pages of the Book of Mormon, skeletons of white nephites, mummy scrolls.
He was a rough stone rolling, being buffeted as he went for his imperfections. He maintained the faith, despite setbacks and things he thought were right but turned out wrong. This can be an example to us how the Lord can work in our lives…or sometimes, not work in our lives.
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