New to this Group

Hi, Harmony, and welcome. It appears you have probably hung around here a bit and know a bit about what happens here. I, too, am gald I found this site and wish I had found it sooner. I am very thankful for the acceptance people receive here.

As you are probably also aware, the stance of church leadership in regards to gays has changed in the past few years. I’m not sure this always trickles down, and I think some local leaders, and definately some members, don’t know what the GAs have been saying about homosexuality of late. I know a couple of gay men who both grew up in our ward, neither of them live here anymore, and neither are active. Even with the improved acceptance, I still believe it’s hard to stay LDS and be gay – but not impossible. I think your love and acceptance is most important.

Thanks for your kind words. It is actually my daughter that I was speaking of. She is someone who is such an amazing, beautiful and caring person, and while only a very few people know of her inclination, I worry what the reaction will be when eventually those at church do know. I don’t care for my sake, but for hers, as she has always been very loved at church. I hope that they will all still love her as they did before. Thankfully my DH is also very loving and accepting of our daughter. I am glad the church’s stance has softened somewhat, but it still is a hard place to be when you are gay. Another child has decided they don’t want to attend anymore, and said that they don’t believe in the church, so this has really left me with the question “Where does this leave my eternal family?”

I am continuing on in my quest to stay in church. I feel strongly about the things I consider positives and truths that I receive there. I am starting to really study more about the church’s history and so in that way maybe this is just a new beginning for me and a time to reevaluate and improve my relationship with God and Christ. I have felt that the things I have read have really inspired me positively, including the book “The God Who Weeps.”

My goal right now is to be as Christlike as I can, and work on helping others.

So thanks for the welcomes into the group. I really feel like finding this website was actually an answer to prayer, so maybe that means he is still listening.

Harmony,

I am sorry your son & family are faced with this challenge. Not sorry for who he is but sorry for the rest of the world that is still struggling to develop the love and tolerance it requires to allow individuals to progress as they are able, given whatever circumstances they are in.

There is good news. The church is reaching out to gay members and younger generations are dealing with individual differences much better than my generation has/is.

Also, remember that the church, as an organization is merely scaffolding for building the individual and family. Your family is the primary force in helping your son find a way to fit in the world and in various subcultures including your ward and stake. So love him unconditionally and let others take their cues from you.

Much love in this journey,

MnG

Harmony,

you will need to rely more on the “Gosple” and less on the “Church” to get you through this. See the talk below, and use it as nessasary

Quote:

Ronald E. Poelman, First Quorum of the 70

Sunday Morning, October 7, 1984 Conference

My remarks this morning are directed primarily to those of you who

have accepted the Gospel and are members of the Church and to those of

you who may be seriously contemplating such acceptance and

membership.

Both the gospel of Jesus Christ and the Church of Jesus Christ are true

and divine. However, there is a distinction between them which is

significant, and it is very important that this distinction be

understood. Of equal importance is understanding the essential

relationship between the Gospel and the Church. Failure to distinguish

between the two and to comprehend their proper relationship may lead

to confusion and misplaced priorities, with unrealistic and therefore

failed expectations. This in turn may result in diminished benefits and

blessings, and in extreme instances, even disaffection.

As I attempt to describe and comment upon some distinguishing

characteristics of the gospel and the Church, noting at the same time

their essential relationships, it is my prayer that a perspective may be

developed which will enhance the influence of both the gospel and the

Church in our individual lives.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is a divine and perfect plan. It is composed

of eternal, unchanging principles and laws which are universally

applicable to every individual regardless of time, place, or

circumstance. The principles and laws of the gospel never change.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a divine institution

administered by the priesthood of God. The Church has authority to

teach correctly the principles and doctrines of the Gospel and to

administer its essential ordinances.

The gospel is the substance of the divine plan for personal, individual

salvation and exaltation. The Church is the delivery system that

provides the means and resources to implement this plan in each

individual’s life.

Procedures, programs, and policies are developed within the Church to

help us realize gospel blessings according to our individual capacity

and circumstances. These policies, programs, and procedures do change

from time to time as necessary to fulfill gospel purposes.

Underlying every aspect of church administration and activity are the

revealed eternal principles as contained in the scriptures. As

individually and collectively we increase our knowledge, acceptance,

and application of gospel principles, we become less dependent on

Church programs. Our lives become Gospel-centered.

Sometimes, traditions, customs, social practices and even personal

preferences of individual church members may, through repeated or

common usage, be misconstrued as church procedures or policies.

Occasionally, such traditions, customs, and practices may be even

regarded by some as eternal gospel principles. Under such

circumstances, those who do not conform to these cultural standards

may mistakenly be regarded as unorthodox, or even, unworthy. In fact,

the eternal principles of the gospel and the divinely inspired church do

accommodate a broad spectrum of individual uniqueness and cultural

diversity. The conformity we require should be according to God’s

standards. The orthodoxy upon which we insist must be founded in

fundamental principles and eternal law, including free agency and the

divine uniqueness of the individual. It is important therefore to know

the difference between eternal gospel principles, which are unchanging,

universally applicable, and cultural norms, which may vary with time

and circumstance.

The source of this perspective is found in the scriptures, and may

appear to be presented in a rather unorganized and even untidy format.

The Lord could have presented the gospel to us in a manual,

systematically organized, by subject, perhaps using examples and

illustrations. However, the eternal principles and divine laws of God

are revealed to us through accounts of individual lives in a variety of

circumstances and conditions. Reading the scriptures, we learn the

gospel as it is taught by various messengers, at different times and

places. We see the consequences as it is accepted or rejected, as its

principles are applied or not, by varying degrees and by many different

people.

In the scriptures we discover that varying institutional forms,

procedures, regulations and ceremonies are utilized–all divinely

designed to implement eternal principles. The practices and procedures

change; the principles do not.

Through scripture study we may learn eternal principles and how to

distinguish them from and relate them to institutional resources. As

we liken the scriptures unto ourselves, we can better utilize the

institutional resources of the modern, restored Church to learn, live,

and to share the gospel of Jesus Christ.

A favorite scriptural source for me is the Old Testament book of

Leviticus. It is basically a handbook for Hebrew priests and contains

many rules, regulations, rituals, and ceremonies which may seem

strange and inapplicable to us. It also contains eternal principles of

the gospel which are familiar and very much applicable to everyone.

It is interesting and enlightening to read the nineteenth chapter of

Leviticus, noting the principles and the practices and rules.

In the first two verses we read, “And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

Speak unto the congregation of the children of Israel.” (Lev. 19:1-2.)

Here is the principle of revelation. God speaks to his children through

prophets. He does so today.

Continuing, the Lord says to Moses, “Say unto them, Ye shall be holy:

for I the Lord your God am holy.” (Lev. 19:2.) Many years later, Jesus, in

these words in the Sermon on the Mount, said it, “Be ye therefore

perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.” (Matt. 5:48.) Here is

an eternal principle.

There follow other eternal principles, some from the Ten

Commandments. Also included are rules and programs intended to

implement these principles among the ancient Hebrews in their

particular circumstances.

For example, the divinely directed responsibility to care for the poor is

taught. A program is presented, namely, providing food for the poor by

leaving the gleanings of the crops and not reaping the corners of the

fields. (See Lev. 19:9-10.) Current programs to care for the poor are

much different. The divine law is the same. Yet another principle

underlies both programs, ancient and modern: those being assisted are

given opportunity to participate in helping themselves to the extent of

their capacity.

In verse 13 the principle of honesty is taught, accompanied by a rule

requiring employers to pay employees for their work at the end of each

day. Generally, today that rule is not necessary. The eternal principle

of honesty is implemented by other rules and practices.

Verse 27 contains a rule about personal grooming. It is clearly not

applicable to us. However, we also have standards of dress and

grooming. Neither is an eternal principle; both are intended to help us

implement and share gospel principles.

The principle of forgiveness is set forth in the same chapter of

Leviticus, verse 18, concluding with the second great commandment,

“Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself,” with the added divine

imprimatur, “I am the Lord.”

Every Church member has not only the opportunity, right, and privilege

to receive a personal witness regarding gospel principles and Church

practices, but the need and obligation to obtain such assurance by

exercising his free agency, thereby fulfilling one purpose of his mortal

probation. Without such assurance, one may feel confused and perhaps

even burdened by what may appear to be simply institutional

requirements of the Church.

Indeed it is not enough to obey the commandments and counsel of

Church leaders; in response to study, prayer, and by the influence of the

Holy Spirit, we may seek and obtain an individual, personal witness

that the principle or counsel is correct and divinely inspired. Then we

can give enlightened, enthusiastic obedience, utilizing the Church

through which to give allegiance, time, talent, and other resources

without reluctance or resentment.

Happy, fulfilling participation in the Church results when we relate

institutional goals, programs, and policies to gospel principles and to

personal eternal goals. When we understand the difference between the

gospel and the Church and the appropriate function of each in our daily

lives, we are much more likely to do the right things for the right

reasons. Institutional discipline is replaced by self-discipline;

supervision is replaced by righteous initiative and a sense of divine

accountability.

The Church aids us in our effort to use our free agency creatively, not

to invent our own values and principles but to discover and adopt the

eternal truths of the gospel. Gospel living is a process of continuous

individual renewal and improvement until the person is prepared and

qualified to enter comfortably and with confidence into the presence of

God.

My brothers and sisters, by inclination, training, and experience, most

of my life I have sought understanding by the accumulation of facts and

the application of reason. I continue to do so. However, that which I

know most surely and which has most significantly and positively

affected my life I do not know by facts and reason alone, but rather by

the comforting, confirming witness of the Holy Spirit.

By that same Spirit I testify that God is our Father, that Jesus of

Nazareth is the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh, and that he is

the Saviour and Redeemer of all mankind and each of us. Through his

atoning sacrifice, redemption and exaltation are offered as a free gift

to all who will accept by faith, repentance, and sacred covenants.

May each of us continue to learn and apply the eternal principles of the

gospel, as they are revealed in the scriptures, utilizing fully and

appropriately the resources of the divine, restored Church. In the

words of the Book of Mormon Nephite leader Pahoran to his friend

Captain Moroni, “May we rejoice in the great privilege of our church,

and in the cause of our Redeemer and our God.” (Alma 61:14.) In the

name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Thanks for posting that Sheldon. I see it will be of some value to me and hopefully others. Maybe we need a newer GA to give a similar talk.

Quote:

Maybe we need a newer GA to give a similar talk.

We had one in the last couple of years, but I can’t remember who gave it – and I’m too lazy to look it up right now. 😳

Harmony, welcome to the site. I feel for you in your struggle. Being gay in the church is a difficult road, although it has been worse – it’s starting to improve with acknowledgement that it’s not a choice. Fortunately, a few prominent church members have come out very vocally in support of their own gay kids – Marie Osmond and Bill Bradshaw come to mind. The church has listened to them and changed the conversation bit by bit as a result. However, there are still plenty of members who seem to have not gotten the memo. Prop 8 speaks too loudly to them for them to hear the changed message. My son has always been a part of his schools’ anti-bullying and GSA groups (gay-straight alliance), and he tells me when he is hearing what he considers gay-bashing among his fellow young adults. I am proud that he always addresses it and stands for right. We have to be loyal to the minority. That’s part of the responsibility of knowing better. Best to you and your family, and very glad to have you here and also in the church still, helping to stand for what is right even in the face of ignorance and opposition.