Hi Everyone!

Welcome, Chills. That part of BYU culture saddens me, but it is a reality. There are those who cope, and there are those who decide it’s just as well to get their education elsewhere. And while I think it’s more pronounced at BYU, the same culture underlies the rest of the church, at least in the US. I suppose you could always hit them up with the fact that TSM (and HWH) never served missions as young men, but I doubt it will matter much.

I have a daughter who struggles with depression, is on meds and sees a counselor. There is no way she is being punished by God. That anyone could actually think or believe that is way beyond my understanding. Mental illness is an illness, just like all other illnesses. Is everybody who gets sick being punished by God? If God is punishing you with mental illness, why isn’t he punishing really bad people? Hang in there, get the help you need. When I went through my crisis of faith, I found out who my friends were(n’t). Looks like you’ve discovered that too.

I will only speak for myself, but yes, indeed, I often see people of other faiths, and sometimes no faith at all, doing better at keeping the two great commandments than many church members do. The “one true church” does not have a monopoly on faith, the spirit, and a myriad of other things.

I did marry a member (in the temple) but I dated non-members. I once asked your question of my bishop when I was getting rather serious with a non-member. He told me that we’re all God’s children and love does not use membership status as a ruler for whether two people should get married. I think that’s probably the best advice I ever got from a bishop.

Good luck on your assessment!

Quick side question: how do you guys feel about marriage between a member and a non-member? I started dating my current girlfriend, a close friend of 15 years, while I was less active. She is one of the most Christlike people I know (one reason I was attracted to her) and treats me infinitely better than the Mormon girls I’ve dated. She sees me for who I really am and not for all the superficial stuff. Plus she’s a nurse and understands depression/anxiety and how it’s a disease and not something you choose to have. Anyway, eternal marriage between a member and a non-member. How do you think that will work out? My parents are always telling me that marrying someone who isn’t Mormon is selling yourself short and means you’ll end up being an eternal babysitter. I think that’s a pretty elitist attitude to have. I just don’t believe that God would not extend that opportunity to EVERYONE, regardless of if they’re Mormon or not or if it’s in this life or the next.

To my mind, one of the very weakest of the arguments against marrying a non-member. Part of our whole focus on what’s what and who’s who in the eternities over living and loving here and now.

Good luck with your EMT training.

Welcome, chills. I don’t have a lot of time right now, but I do want to welcome you.

Hey Chills,

We have gone through the trenches together, my friend. Your mission experience was almost mine exactly, only I didn’t even make it out of the MTC. I described some of my mission story in this post, http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4220&p=56889#p56889. I think you’ll be surprised if you read it just how much you and I can relate. I truly feel for you.

I was depressed before I left for my mission, although I didn’t really recognize that’s what it was. I have been medicated for anxiety and depression on and off since then. I’ve gone through counseling several times, and each time it’s been helpful, but not until recently has it been paradigm shifting. My current counselor works at a Christian psychological office, and as I described to her the difficulties I was going through months ago (basically all the trouble I was having reconciling the things you described about members of the church, and even religion in general), she said, “I can see how much you live in your head.” I had no idea what she meant by that, but it didn’t seem judgmental, just caring and sure. She told me to listen to this set of talks by a Franciscan monk named Richard Rohr. http://www.amazon.com/True-Self-False-Richard-O-F-M/dp/1616360925 I was skeptical, but after one more visit and her calm reassurance that she thought it would help me despite the fact that he wasn’t Mormon, I gave it a shot. I didn’t even have to pay for it since the Audible.com version was free just for signing up (I’ve since cancelled the Audible membership, but I still have the talks).

As I started listening, my entire outlook started changing. Despite using some Catholic terms I didn’t know at the time and quoting certain people I hadn’t heard of before, I would be listening and find my soul in excited agreement. Sometimes I was almost giddy to find that other people in the world felt the same way that I did about the confining dogmas of organized religion. He doesn’t just sit there praising Catholicism. In fact, he’s harder on his own religion (the temporal church and its collective ego) than he is anyone else’s. I found it truly enlightening.

The other person that has really helped me recently is Eckhart Tolle. Go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle and read the brief section titled Inner transformation. I am currently finishing a book of his called A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life’s Purpose , and I think a light bulb turns on in my head about every other page. I’m reading it on my phone, and I highlight things I like so I can scan through the highlight list and jump to things I want to remember or reread. At this point I probably should have just highlighted the whole darn book!

Anyway, I felt so connected to your story I thought hey, why not just let him know what’s helped me? There’s a good chance our hearts resonate on a similar frequency. Even if they don’t though, I am glad to have connected with your story, and hope you can find loving support here.

Does anyone else feel the same way about church culture as I do? That because it’s “the one true church” that many members feel that they’re better than everyone else? I recently went through an EMT course and I was happily astonished by how good and pure people’s motives were for getting into that field, regardless of them having tattoos, piercings, swearing, smoking, drinking, having sex, etc. I was like “These people are more Christlike than most of the members I’ve encountered!” How does that happen?

I feel exactly that way…the church culture can interfere with Christlike behavior in some people. I think it was Mark Twain who said “I don’t mind if you get an education as long as it doesn’t interfere with your thinking”.

I would like to modify that to read:

“I don’t mind if you commit to the LDS Church, as long as it doesn’t interfere with your spirituality”. Unfortunately, it does in many people — particularly those who buy into the textbook pattern a good Mormon is expected to follow.

I also notice the people in the community can be phenomenal. We sometimes get the feeling that we are “chosen” or somehow better than the rest of the world “the salt of the earth” in the LDS church. But in terms of behavior, there are a LOT of good people out there. A ton of them, and they do more than serve their own churches…they are out in the community working very hard.

I know we’ve established that being a good Mormon doesn’t necessarily mean you are also a good Christian / person. Someone once said you should only work at a place where “doing well also means doing good.” I think this is important in life. For the most part, the church does work well for those whose aim is to do good works. Unfortunately, it also works well sometimes for others.