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I’ve recently started seeing a therapist to help me work through several issues, my feelings about religion and what I want mine and my family’s future relationship to the church to be like being one of them. She’s encouraged me to consider and explore my spirituality as completely separate from religion. She said I need to discover what I feel and think about things such as my own inherent worth and the purpose of life independent of what anyone else or the church in particular has told me. I’m finding this a little difficult. (Must be the 31 years of primary, YW, SS, and RS) When my spiritual shelf of issues and beliefs crashed to the floor, God pretty much fell off with everything else. I’ve been trying ever since to figure out if I believe in God at all or a higher power. Now that I’m thinking more about spirituality in general, I’m having a hard time separating it from belief in a deity. I’m leaning toward a belief in some sort of higher power, but the God that I was taught exists doesn’t always make sense to me anymore. I understand that all of the references to God in the scriptures are more the perceptions and opinions of the men who authored them, but it seems like this “never changing” God that I’ve been taught about has so many sides to him that he feels more like a many-faced God that I’m not sure I can rely on. Is it wrong of me to create my own version of God?
I’ve always been taught that my individual worth is a product of my being a daughter of God. Where does that leave me if I decide that I don’t believe in God?
I no longer believe in the plan of salvation the way it’s always been laid out for us, and I have no idea what will happen after this life, but I feel strongly that our spirits will continue after our bodies die. If I don’t believe that our purpose in life is to be tested in our faith and obedience to God and the gospel so we can ultimately become gods and create worlds, why are we here?
Anyway, I’m just throwing out some questions into the Internet universe here. Feel free to share your perspectives. I’m still working on mine.
I recommend reading The God Who Weeps. One of the things the book reminded me of is how strongly I believe in the pre-existence. I really do believe in the idea that our intelligences are eternal and chose to come here. Regardless what else that means, it just reminded me how much that idea makes sense of the world to me. MayB wrote:When my spiritual shelf of issues and beliefs crashed to the floor, God pretty much fell off with everything else. I’ve been trying ever since to figure out if I believe in God at all or a higher power. Now that I’m thinking more about spirituality in general, I’m having a hard time separating it from belief in a deity. I’m leaning toward a belief in some sort of higher power, but the God that I was taught exists doesn’t always make sense to me anymore. I understand that all of the references to God in the scriptures are more the perceptions and opinions of the men who authored them,
but it seems like this “never changing” God that I’ve been taught about has so many sides to him that he feels more like a many-faced God that I’m not sure I can rely on. Is it wrong of me to create my own version of God? My crisis of faith was much like yours in that everything came crashing down – including my belief in God. I went through a time where I believed there probably wasn’t a God, but I eventually came around to the Deist idea of God and stuck with that for a long time – it’s still the basis for my belief in God. I do believe there is a God and that same God is the creator, but I don’t believe God is like he is described by most Mormons (despite what they “know” about God). I see very little in the way of God interacting with people and no intervention in personal lives. I don’t know that you’re really asking to create your own version of God, but rather your own interpretation of God. To an extent everyone does that, it just happens that the LDS view is indoctrinated. I do believe it’s fine to create your own interpretation, and in fact I’m not sure I would be sane if I didn’t. My view of God allows me to recognize – and even worship – a higher power yet have no expectations that God has any desire to interact personally with me or intervene personally on my behalf.
I still believe in God, and feel the Spirit and have found spirituality in arenas other than religion. Here is a possible approach — don’t worry about the form of shape God takes, or the plan of salvation. Focus on developing your character into the attributes you admire in Jesus, God, people you know etcetera. Recognize your weaknesses and work on them. Focus on the person you want to become and set some lofty goals for what you want to achieve for others in this life – in the way of service…and then work for it in whatever context you find passion (in or out of the church). Prayer then becomes vitally important as a way to empower your spirit to become what you want to become, and achieve what you want to achieve to bless others.. You find yourself relying on God to help you achieve selfless goals about which you feel passionate.
The policies, the religion, the guilt, the “shoulds”, all these things become less important — particularly if you put the church in its rightful place in your life — and that place doesn’t have to be 110% of your disposable time if you don’t want.
Perhaps what I’m recommending is “too soon” for you — like courting a new boyfriend after breakign up with a long-time boyfriend (the church). After I realized the church wasn’t a place for me to grow within anymore, and a period of reflection and discussion, mostly here at StayLDS, I feel very comfortable with garnering spirituality from places other than formal religion (although I still participate in it).
That is my advice…I personally don’t care for the questions of truth as it relates to the exact nature of God, whether the Church is true anymore, etcetera. What matters is that I’m going about serving others with a character that exemplifies what I want to become….there is spirituality in that.
I agree with SD and don’t think it’s like courting a new BF before the old is gone. Personally, I’m convinced that if we don’t seek out the good of other faiths (including non-faith experiences), we can’t grow past our 30s or 40s. The world is its own university. Being in a Mormon bubble stifles us, rather than prodding the kind of insights and reflection needed to keep life interesting and vital for our entire lives. I’d read lots, visit various cultures, question your assumptions, and so on. I do all of this while remaining active in the church, but the church is not a very big source of inspiration at this point. I feel it is mostly a comfortable, redundant background chorus. These are all great thoughts. Long before my faith crisis, I came across the phrase “spiritual but not religious” and it blew my mind! I had honestly never considered separating the two. Now, during my faith transition, I really feel like I am spiritual while not always being religious. I don’t think there is any shame in keeping things undefined and nebulous. Like others had said, spirituality can always be evolving. What you believe today doesn’t have to be the same tomorrow. hawkgrrrl wrote:I recommend reading The God Who Weeps. One of the things the book reminded me of is how strongly I believe in the pre-existence. I really do believe in the idea that our intelligences are eternal and chose to come here. Regardless what else that means, it just reminded me how much that idea makes sense of the world to me.
Took the words right out of my mouth. Thy book reshaped my perspectives. I dream of a day when it is the Sunday school manual.
If I had my way I’d make it the 5th book in the standard works. I sincerely hope that the Givens shape the rhetoric of the church in the decades to come.
As for testing obedience… I like to consider the scripture on refiners fire. Gold doesn’t get placed in the refiners fire to attempt to break it but to strengthen and purify it.
That’s the god I believe in. A being who provided an environment created for becoming your very best self. Eternally.
I think one of the central messages of the New Testament is that it’s better to be godly (spiritual, in the best sense) than to be religious, if it has to be one or the other. I think the ideal is both, but the foundation needs to be the condition of one’s soul, not just the actions of one’s body. Without the spiritual foundation, what we do is nothing more than “dead works”. I also think this is reflected in the emphasis on “becoming” over “doing” over the last decade or so.
MayB wrote:I understand that all of the references to God in the scriptures are more the perceptions and opinions of the men who authored them, but it seems like this “never changing” God that I’ve been taught about has so many sides to him that he feels more like a many-faced God that I’m not sure I can rely on. Is it wrong of me to create my own version of God?
I like the trinitarian God and it bothers me when LDS people sometimes belittle this belief. One of the creeds descibes God as uncomprehendable with a bunch of paradox’s like “He is big enough to fill the universe but small enough to dwell in your heart.” This has been ridiculed as nonesense, but to me the ambiguities of the trinitarian God allow me more freedom in defining what God means to me. I also like the idea of my HF personally descending to save me through the Atonement rather than sending a volunteer JC. It won’t bother me one bit if my thoughts on this subject don’t end up being the answer to life, the universe, and everything.
I have also wondered if the LDS belief in the Heavenly Mother might allow varying perspectives of God with female attributes. Maybe a Male/Female inseperably connected balance.
😮 And then you get into the “Council of the Gods” and there is even more room for variation. Ask Ray about that when you get a chance.
I personally believe that God wouldn’t mind you picturing him/her/them in whatever way is the most beneficial to you.
:angel: Quote:I personally believe that God wouldn’t mind you picturing him/her/them in whatever way is the most beneficial to you.
I believe God “appears” to people in whatever form makes the most sense to them – and, by that, I mean I believe people see God however they are can see God. For example, I absolutely love the concept of Heavenly Parents, so I accept that view.
Thank you for all of your wonderful thoughts. I’ve seen The God Who Weeps mentioned many times here on StayLDS. I was happy to see that my local library has a copy. I think I’ll pick it up this week.
Like I said, I’m still formulating my own ideas on God and spirituality. I really like SD’s suggestions regarding focusing on my own spiritual development by incorporating those traits or aspects of God and Christ that I identify with and want to achieve. SD, I also love your emphasis on service as a means of increasing spirituality and growth. Due to the craziness of my life right now, I don’t feel like I could jump into any organization and dedicate time there in any significant way. I am, however, making a more conscious effort to see the simple needs of those around me and to be of service to them in any way I can. As I do this, I find that I become more inclined to believe in some sort of higher power connecting us all together in some way. I also find great fulfillment in my work educating couples in strengthening their relationship.
MissEyre, the term spiritual but not religious has always baffled me as well, but I think I am now starting to understand. I’m starting to see spirituality as more of how in tune I am to my own spirit and striving to develop that spirit in a way that will make me a better person. Religion is not necessarily required.
I don’t have to see others as my literal spirit brothers and sisters to see that we’re all connected simply by being human and being here on this earth. I can desire to serve others, be humble, make positive choices,respect myself, love and forgive others without all of those things having to have any sort of religious motivation. In the LDS church we learn that every man has “the Light of Christ” within him. I’m starting to think that this light doesn’t necessarily have to be seen as specifically connected to Christ, but is our own internal compass that guides our morals and is present in all of us regardless of religious affiliation. I’m learning to rely more on my own intuition, what we might call personal revelation, rather than denying that intuition in favor of the counsel of apostles and prophets. As I do this, I’m learning to trust myself again. I suppose, for now, this is my view on my own spirituality.
MayB, I wish I could give you a hug. I struggled at a very early age with this. In many ways I still do. That is to say that going to church regularly seems to hurt me more then help me and my self-esteem and depression.
I never knew who I was until I separated the 2. Instead of letting others define me I began to listen to my heart and my spirit, I found the basic paths crossed so I emphasized the church. However the church is more pronounced and concerned with Semantics and in doing so I lose myself and forget who I am again being a person of passive nature.
I suppose there are those that can listen to constant talks about who to be and what to be. To hear constant admonishing which to me comes across as persistent chastising and not be affected or helpful. I find such constant talk depressing and often causes severe depression if I don’t desperate myself fr it soon. I can’t listen to
It and have it not effect me in a negative way.
I want to tell you this because I wish I would have taken that advise more seriously and not dismissed it when I was younger by a psychologist. If I had I wouldn’t have tried a repeat suicide later afyer losing myself and who I was yet again listening to counsel at church.
I think it is imperative that we each learn who we are independent of another and who we are together.
But before we can take care of others we must first take care of our selves. That phrase sounded so selfish to me when I was younger. Indeed long term we must be in contact with who we are and what makes us happy if we want to share and spread joy. Which for me has been my life’s work.
Spiritually and institutional religion or religion differ.
Spiritual being defined as that which connects us to our inner desires for happiness, joy and peace.
That can happen with or without a belief in god or church but doesn’t define our separate belief into those things.
It’s not one or the other or same, there just separate things.
I hope your self worth becomes independent of others, church or otherwise that is needed for lasting happiness.
Being a passive person I have a real hard time not going with the program and remnerimg who I am. I forget and get lost very quickly and have a hard time finding myself again.
I hope the same doesn’t happen to you.
Know who you are and what makes you happy. You define you.
This is not to say that separating them defines there is a or isn’t a god or a church or true church.
It just defines that you don’t need those to be happy.
I find happiness in giving myself and sharing with others. Independent of all else.
Wrapping a bunch of taboo or semantics of laws and conditions deminishes that light very quickly in me.
It may or may not for you. Either way your self worth is up to you, don’t let others put a condition on it.
As SD noted, service to others is a very powerful and fine ring experience that can be shared in any location or environment. There are many opportunities if you know where to look.– take care
MayB wrote:I’m learning to rely more on my own intuition, what we might call personal revelation, rather than denying that intuition in favor of the counsel of apostles and prophets. As I do this, I’m learning to trust myself again.
Hi, MayB – I look back and remember so many times when my thoughts ran contrary to what I was taught. So what did I do? Dismiss my own thoughts! I had no confidence in them in the face of the authority of the church. I’m so glad I woke up and started the journey I’m on now. And I wonder if this wasn’t the point of the restoration, anyway – a people earnestly seeking rather than swallowing whole and unchewed the pronouncements of others.
Forgotten_Charity, thank you for that wonderful comment. You and I are quite similar in a lot of ways. I’m finally reaching the point in my life where I am following my own path and recognizing my own inherent worth rather than simply doing or relying on what some in the church tell me I should be. Ann, you are spot-on! I did the exact same thing for so long. It’s so freeing to finally realize that I do know what is best for myself and that I should trust my own judgment rather than completely denying my feelings/wants/needs/etc. based on what a church leader says from the pulpit.
MayB wrote:
Ann, you are spot-on! I did the exact same thing for so long. It’s so freeing to finally realize that I do know what is best for myself and that I should trust my own judgment rather than completely denying my feelings/wants/needs/etc. based on what a church leader says from the pulpit.Amen!!! When I threw off the need for church approval, things got WAY better for me. But one has to approach it with their own moral compass…
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