- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
In another thread, someone mentioned a Mormon Urban Legend purported to come from BKP, but which he later denied: Speaking to youth…
Quote:
You were generals in the War in Heaven and one day when you are in the spirit world, you will be enthralled by those you are associated with. You will ask someone in which time period they lived and you might hear, “I was with Moses when he parted the Red Sea,” or “I helped build the pyramids’” or “I fought with Captain Moroni.” And as you are standing there in amazement, someone will turn to you and ask you which of the prophets’ time did you live in? And when you say “Gordon B. Hinckley” a hush will fall over every hall and corridor in Heaven,and all in attendance will bow at your presence.You were held back six thousand years because you were the most talented, most obedient, most courageous, and most righteous. What is the source of such statements? Simply trying to motivate people to be more righteous through speculative falsehoods?
Certainly, visualizing everyone bowing at your presence because you are righteous is a contradiction in terms!
No idea where that specific statement came from, but I have heard the sentiment that the rising generation is the most righteous all my life. I think of it as a form of communal brainwashing. I think the intent is to tell young people that they are better than anyone that has gone before, to engender in them a desire to step up to big roles. I find close parallel in Hollywood. Blockbuster movies are specifically targeted at the teenage audience who spends the most money at the theater. It’s no coincidence that many/most of these movies are super-hero stories… some person has amazing hidden or untapped ability, way beyond what anyone else realizes. This is the teenager’s dream… “I am awesome, no matter what my parents, teachers or the popular kids say!”
Of course, the idea that the current generation is the greatest of all time is laughable. The greatest at playing Madden 25 or Call of Duty… no doubt. Hardest working? Most selfless? Best dressed? Most sacrificing? Please.
Speaking of laughs, I recently heard a YM giving a talk in a youth-centric meeting, where he parroted the concept. I found it uncomfortable to hear this teaching come from a young person, because instead of encouraging, it came off as self-aggrandizing. One thing he said, paraphrasing, was something to the effect…
no offense to the older folks here, but I fully expect the second coming to happen during the lifetime of us young people.Self esteem is built through personal accomplishment, not by gray-haired people telling you you are awesome. Actually, I think American (and probably other first-worldly) youth suffer from low self-esteem, because we give them less and less responsibility all the time, and then turn around and tell them how wonderful they are. I think the Church is a great force for good in this arena, because it gives actual responsibility and opportunity for kids to step up and do things that are beyond their ability. This is why I think the message like the one SD mentioned is so wrong… it is totally unneeded. We have a community of hard-working people, and we do a great job of bringing youth into that environment. It should be more than enough to show kids what great opportunities they have in life, without having to tell them they have super-powers.
I think HBEyring said it much better in GC, April 2010:
Quote:You know of two powerful programs provided by the Lord. One, for young women, is called Personal Progress. The other, for Aaronic Priesthood holders, is called Duty to God. We encourage young people in the rising generation to see their own potential to build great spiritual strength. And we plead with those who care about those young people to rise to what the Lord requires of us to help them. And since the future of the Church depends upon them, all of us care.
That is the right message… Great potential, yes! Greatest by birth, no!It’s the same message that every generation has told itself and the next ever since Adam first spoke to his grandchildren. The emotional source is the blinders we wear when we see our posterity and dream of the way they will change the world. It’s not unique to Mormonism – not even close – and there is no brain-washing or manipulation involved. The end of the world statements also have been around for thousands of years. Everyone thinks their time is worse than all other times, which means it takes the best ever to fix it. It cyclical and natural. It’s not true, but it’s not nefarious in any way.
I’m glad it’s been repudiated, and I am sure Pres. Packer never gave the quote in the post. I’ve heard too many other urban legends to give it any validity, and the crap that circulates on the internet (inside and outside Mormonism) is just further proof.
I’ve always heard that particular quote in the context of these times being very perilous, thus the most righteous people were saved for now so as to be able to endure the times. I suppose, then, in a sense it was meant to be encouraging to the youth. They would be “honored” in heaven therefore because they were the ones that lived in the most perilous of times, defedning the true gospel. While it could be interpreted as aggrandizement, I don’t think that was the intent. But it’s apparently a false quote. The question then would be why did whoever started the rumor (or whatever it would be called) start it? His/her motivation may have been aggrandizement, but we will probably never know. Old-Timer wrote:It’s the same message that every generation has told itself and the next ever since Adam first spoke to his grandchildren. The emotional source is the blinders we wear when we see our posterity and dream of the way they will change the world. It’s not unique to Mormonism – not even close.
Mmmm…, I think modern Mormonism pushes the point well beyondgentileconcepts by teaching that it is part of God’s plan for these kids to be here now. I doubt strongly that the Catholic parishes are telling their teenagers that they were preserved for these last days because they were choice spirits. I doubt that people in India or Indiana are telling their youngsters that they will usher in a golden age. I do believe that this has been a strong teaching in the LDS Church during my lifetime. I’m talking about at the local level, now. But I’ve heard this so many times:
The Lord has saved you young people to come forth in these last days because you were stronger than other spirits.I think the Church is doing better now, but it has been a Church teaching. Ezra Taft Benson, GC, Oct 1977, when I was in YM:
Quote:I want to talk to you, the young people of the Church, frankly and honestly. I presume you know that we love you. As leaders of the Church, there isn’t anything in this world we wouldn’t do that’s right for you. We have great confidence in you. You are not just ordinary young men and young women. You are choice spirits, many of you having been held back in reserve for almost 6,000 years to come forth in this day, at this time, when the temptations, responsibilities, and opportunities are the very greatest.
I believe the Church is trying to avoid this dogmatic teaching, but it will take a very very long time to unlearn this concept. Even with my sporadic attendence, I have heard it from the pulpit in the last 6 months.
I note that the Church changed slightly, its introduction to
For the Strength of the Youth, which had been adapted from ETB’s talk. 2001 FP Message to the youth in FSY:
Quote:Our beloved young men and women, we have great confidence in you. You are choice spirits who have come forth in this day when the responsibilities and opportunities, as well as the temptations, are the greatest… – 2001 For the Strength of the Youth
2011 FP Message to the youth in FSY:
Quote:OUR DEAR YOUNG MEN AND YOUNG WOMEN, we have great confidence in you. You are beloved sons and daughters of God and He is mindful of you. You have come to earth at a time of great opportunities and also of great challenges… – 2011 For the Strength of the Youth
Notice that the 2001 version calls them “choice spirits”, which implies better than some other baseline. Notice that the 2011 version calls them “beloved sons and daughters of God” which is no different from anyone else. I love the change. I am grateful that the Church realized that it has had this tendency and is moving away from it, but I guarantee you that there were local lessons taught last Sunday that told the young people that they were choice spirits reserved for these last days, and that there will be more local lessons this coming Sunday that will say the same thing.
I agree that it’s been a teaching in the Church for a long time. I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. However, I also know the same basic concept has been said and is being said in lots of non-Mormon congregations around the world, especially those that have a millennial view. I’ve heard it from the pulpit and in classes in other churches and, as a history teacher, in the literature of other religions – not just Christian denominations. Also, as much as I admire my grandparents’ generation, how is it any different than calling them “the greatest generation”?
It’s not just a Mormon thing, although we have imbued it with specific theological context and meaning. It’s a human thing. It’s so prevalent that the majority of people believe that their generation is better than those ignorant people who lived before them. People tend to be egotistical, and the generals in heaven belief is nothing more than one unique manifestation of that human tendency.
Old-Timer wrote:the majority of people believe that their generation is better than those ignorant people who lived before them.
Haha… totally agree and I find the smugness of those same people to be aggravating. Of course, it is one thing to believe this because we are egotistical by our nature, and it is another thing to teach our children that they are indeed better in the sight of God.Old-Timer wrote:Also, as much as I admire my grandparents’ generation, how is it any different than calling them “the greatest generation”?
Well, now, I think there is a world of difference there. I don’t love calling them the greatest generation, because I believe there is no good that comes from that kind of comparative declaration. However, the difference is that when people who use that term about that generation, base it on what that generation actually did. It is merit-based. Telling our kids they are the greatest generation because God thinks more of their ability is promoting elitism based on birthright.Yeah, I do agree with that distinction – but it still is a good example of self-praise in many cases. I remember being told this in seminary. We were also told, repeatedly, that we would live to see Christ return to the Earth. This is all just setting us up for disappointment, IMO. I remember the first time that, as an adult, I heard the youth spoken of as the greatest generation and thinking “Hey! Wait! I thought that was us! Did we screw up that bad?” I’m sure it varies as to the degree that youth take this statement to heart, but I know that my SIL (18 years old) feels extremely justified in preaching to others and correcting others on religious matters and sincerely believes that she is here in this time specifically because she was so very very righteous in the war in heaven.
I agree that targeting the youth is a way to get them emotionally invested in the church’s plan for them (mission, temple marriage, callings, etc.).
The original quote you wrote SD was totally made up. As CES teachers experienced it (the quote was making the rounds, like in devotionals and stuff) sometimes it was attributed to BKP, other times it was Henry Eyring. Because it was stirring, no one who read it thought to source check it. Missionaries passed it around, youth glued it to the front of their scriptures, etc. It moved like wildfire, but a letter was sent out to CES people to stop the continuation of it. For me the source of the statement was a lay member with an enthusiastic idea. Much like Saturday’s Warrior.
I loved Saturday’s Warrior. I saw dozen’s of times live. I listened to the record endlessly. The whole idea grabbed me. People bore testimonies of their Saturday Warrior status. We were told again and again – WE WERE THE CHOSEN. The clock was barely touching mid-night. We felt valiant, purposeful, connected to God. But Saturday’s Warrior was an idea. A good idea. It opened many doors, but it wasn’t doctrine, it was heart string. The enthusiastic statement you quoted is much the same.
Humans yearn to be great. They have since time began. It’s not a bad wish or desire. Wanting to be great, to be needed, to be purposeful, to be valued is the emotional source that inspired the quote that never was. I choose not to fault the individual, I’m not even sure how they came up with it. But their desire was to inspire. That’s all. We all love a bit of inspiration.
Quote:a hush will fall over every hall and corridor in Heaven, and all in attendance will bow at your presence.
FWIW, I’d rather meet Samuel the Lamanite than Tom Trails. Just sayin’.I often wondered about this when I was a teen. When people would talk about how special we were to have been born and raised in the church there was a nagging voice in my mind that if we were so doggone special and valiant, why wouldn’t we have been born into great adversity? Didn’t our relative easy situation seem to imply we were weak, not strong? Too weak to deal with a tough life, one in which we would have to recognize the gospel despite our upbringing in darkness, or being born in a place where the church may not ever reach in our lifetime. On Own Now wrote:Self esteem is built through personal accomplishment, not by gray-haired people telling you you are awesome. Actually, I think American (and probably other first-worldly) youth suffer from low self-esteem, because we give them less and less responsibility all the time, and then turn around and tell them how wonderful they are. I think the Church is a great force for good in this arena, because it gives actual responsibility and opportunity for kids to step up and do things that are beyond their ability. This is why I think the message like the one SD mentioned is so wrong… it is totally unneeded.
We have a community of hard-working people, and we do a great job of bringing youth into that environment. It should be more than enough to show kids what great opportunities they have in life, without having to tell them they have super-powers.I was kind of a sucker (girl of exactly the right vintage) for Saturday’s Warrior. But my actual experience at church was this. More like being passed the torch. When I think about bagging it all – my participation at church – the memory of all those spiritual mentors kicks in and I have more desire to stay.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.