Paranoia about who is noticing the lack of garments

The important thing, imo, is being comfortable with my own decisions and learning to let go of my concern for what other people think. It’s not easy, but it gets easier over time.

That’s exactly what I’m working on Ray. Maybe it’s my personality or the way I was raised, but what other people think has always been important to me. Now that I’m working on worrying more about what I think and how I feel about things, I’m seeing just how ingrained that habit has become for me. Even down to the most personal of things such as choosing whether or not to wear the garments.

Any time someone makes a major change in their life, it’s natural to wonder how many people notice – and not wearing the garment is a major change for most Mormons.

Some people will look; others won’t. Some will care; others won’t. The important thing, imo, is being comfortable with my own decisions and learning to let go of my concern for what other people think. It’s not easy, but it gets easier over time.

This. :thumbup: group mentality is not as obvious when you are in the group(what ever group that is). Once outside the group things hardly noticeable become glaring obvious that it tends to lead to paranoia like thinking.

It’s natural. But takes time to overcome.

Until I was schooled in propaganda techniques by a North Korean physiologist I wasn’t aware of many of the things active in even my own nation or tv, radio etc. now it’s glaringly obvious and hard not to notice.

But over time it works it’s way into normality so you aren’t thinking about it as much.

It helps to think about things as we are all christen of god trying to find our way no matter our creed or beliefs.

I could care less about everyone’s indivisible beliefs now. I used to a whole ton though.

But it has broken down over time to only really focusing in the 2 great commandments and fur filling the 2nd by for filling the first.

I think it’s obvious to my family and missionaries because they countless sky ask me to link church stuff and websites to influence my friends and I won’t.

They are happy we’re they are and I respect and love it. Please give me that same respect as well

As them as we want them to give us.

Love one another. That can be difficult at times with all that goes on let alone the 100s or thousands of others things we are supposedly asked it commanded to do or believe. I choose to make it more simple.

If they approach you ask for the same love and respect they would like or you have shown them.

Loving doesn’t include overbearing and seekers not its own.

If they are following that and gently remind them that it’s your path you are walking to make life happy or peaceful for you.

Isn’t funny how we get in the habit of noticing what underwear each other is wearing? And then we make judgments or assumptions about people based on that? Well, you guys probably don’t because you’re wonderful , but when I was TBM I did it all the time.

So true.

MayB,

There is nothing wrong with being concerned with how other people perceive you. That is natural, and in fact, important in social interaction. But I think it is important to separate out a couple of aspects of it.

1) It is important not to injure another because of our beliefs. 2) It is also important to own our beliefs and not modify the way we are because we are afraid of what others will say or think.

An example of #1 would be pulling out the beer when your inlaws come over and then berating them for not joining you in drinking, when you know that that is part of their faith.

An example of #2 would be if a person joins the LDS Church but still drinks beer when he is with his friends because he doesn’t want them to think he is weird, even though he now thinks of it as contrary to his faith. (I’m not saying there is anything wrong with drinking beer, but rather that it is wrong for a person to go against their convictions because of who else is in the room).

Often, in our particular situation as stayLDS people, we conflate the two because they are so intertwined. We give up #2 in order not to fail on #1. But to me it is essential to tease them apart. We need to make them separate issues. I mean, do you really want to live in fear of people seeing what kind of underwear you are wearing for the rest of your life?

My suggestion is to solve this by the most straight-forward approach. IMO, you should tell your inlaws, or rather, your husband should tell your inlaws while you are in the room, that the two of you are no longer full believers. In order to address #1, above, you should do this in a way that focuses on what you do believe, not what you don’t, and you should give special attention to your desires to continue to be good people that would please God. And most importantly, you need to offer your full and unconditional support of their faith and beliefs. If you can do this, #2 will become much easier. Garments are not the issue, faith is. Get your faith out in the open, show that you are still good, treat everyone like you’d like to be treated, and garments will not be a topic of conversation.

I know this won’t be easy for you. It wasn’t easy for me, and I’m sure it wasn’t easy for most here. But I feel like it was the single most important step forward for me, and has done wonders for my sanity (literally).

Exactly Ann. Garments are used to immediately judge people, especially women.

I do agree that both males and females will be judged for not wearing garments. A women though will have a much greater stigma than a man as not only is she NOT wearing garments but heaven forbid she is now a walking sexual temptation to all men since knees and shoulders may be shown. You know the old “slut/modesty” judgments since that has become a very big reason for garmets for many TBMs. Protection from sexual thoughts. So yes I do feel and have seen in my own experience that the outcome and judgments for women vs men not wearing garments is different. As I have also heard on occasion TBM state that if a guy isn’t wearing his its because of “p@&$.”

You are correct Ray that guys do generally wear garments at a younger age though as you said that may be changing. I find it can be hard to tell if a guy has garments on especially if he does not wear the “eternal smile” type. For men they look like any undershirt many nonlds men wear daily. For women, even dressed completely modestly, garments outline still shows through unless wearing a very thick material. Beyond that though, I have heard often that if a guy isn’t wearing them he is hurting HIMself and HIS family only for the most part. If women are not wearing them, they have the potential to harm not only themselves but OTHER people by not keeping this particular rule. They may tempt men sexually with their clothing choices or be a bad example for the YW who will then perhaps resent garments and or tempt the YM with immodest dress. I’m not making this up. I had to sit through an entire relief society discussion that turned into “when lds women do not wear garments it is a danger to “all” of us women and the safety of our families.” I think it goes back to evolution and the threat of competion or as others have said the old “if I have to do it then you have to” mentality. It was a very weird conversation to sit through. Also I’m not trying to bash men in anyway here just trying to give MayB a heads up that the reaction of others to her husband not wearing garments could be very different than their reaction to her not wearing garments.