Line in the sand

There were a few other talks that were not as you described. I thought E. Cook made some good points about both parents being sure that they are leaning in to parenting, not just work. I also heard that E. Causse’s talk at PH was good. I honestly felt very discouraged about this conference. I believe E. Oaks’ talk lays out a losing proposition. Time to cut your losses on gay marriage. It’s not going to make a hill of beans what the church’s stance on this issue is, and the members who support it are certainly not going to change teams on it. That’s bringing politics into church, IMO, and it’s wrong for the right and the left. For some reason, the right keeps getting a pass on it.

Right now, the thought that keeps coming to me is the thing they say about the weather in Utah (or other places too). “If you don’t like the weather, just wait 15 minutes.”

I honestly don’t know how local leaders and tbm members are suppose to deal or welcome the cwalds back.

They really are in a tough position.

I have empathy for them…

Perhaps the best many could do is welcome them back into the family circle, but “respect our faith and beliefs and give us room on Sunday?”

This may be the best I can hope for…

I would take it.

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Cwald – Uchdorft’s talk is encouraging, but I know enough about organizational change to recognize that rarely does a simple paragraph in a single talk, by a single top leader (in this case, one of many) make a difference over the long term.

There will have to be repeated references to the “welcome” statements. The handbook would need to be updated, the TBM’s would have to start bearing testimony about it, Ensign would have to disseminate the idea. WW leadership training would have to address it — otherwise, it’s a flash in the pan.

However, this shows a glimpse or light, flash of acceptance. We should celebrate it, and then go forward with a healthy skepticism and wait to see whether anyone else in the twelve picks up the torch.

Personally, I think your particular situation rests with your family. They need to drop their judgmentalism and welcome you back into the fold of the family — and take Uchdorft’s comments to heart.

I can empathize, as I saw my family for the first time in 10 years a couple months ago. They were so negative on me. They were completely uninterested in my life, particularly my mother. My sister realized that after 10 years of my living in a separate country, and essentially, giving up on any kind of meaningful, close relationship again, they felt a twinge of guilt. They saw pictures of my children and realized they are becoming adults, I think, and it was a small wakeup call. My sister initiated meetings and family get togethers in the last year….and now that they have checked the box, the airwaves are dead again.

My advice is to continue investing in your immediate family relationships (sounds like you and jwald et. al have it together). Make it even more beautiful. And find community organizations to which to belong and contribute that attract good people. Belong there until the church decides to live its own values (unconditional love, be a light, not a judge, eternal perspective, faith in people’s ability to become) etcetera. They are not living those values right now

In my experience, your immediate family and other community places to belong are all places of healing. The world does not have to revolve around the church, as the church has apparently convinced your family. I know it hurts (I deal with my family’s orientation toward me with a certain amount of pain — but only when I let myself dwell on it). But I have discovered there is peace in these other areas of focus.

In my opinion, cwald, the ship is turning so slowly it probably won’t be a noticeable difference attending church right now then it was before conference. People still think and fear the same about ideas that are foreign to them, and they judge and have prejudices, some have more of these, and some members really don’t and have greater capacities to love and embrace others’ differences.

To me, there is hope for a place for someone like you and all of us. But the ship turns slowly so it means you have to have hope of acceptance, even when you will not see it all the time from everyone.

Do you feel kind of drawn to want to try it?

..

Do you feel kind of drawn to want to try it?

Yes, I think so. For family reasons.

But I remember how miserable I was always having to sneak around and pretend to believe and have values I ideals that I just didn’t share with mainstream Mormonism.

I was pretty miserable, and listening to talks and lessons that I simple disagreed with caused much frustration and sorrow.

I just don’t think I could go back and sit in the back and never voice my opinion or concerns with church culture…especially if what I’m reading is correct, and the church had started to draw a line in the sand.

The church really is in a tough position. I have no easy answer of how to fix this problem.

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I don’t either, cwald, and that’s the obstacle I have to returning right now. I do plan to return, but only attend SM. Attending SM only, in my mind, will allow me to avoid those other more uncomfortable interactions in SS & PH. Still, I might also have trouble sitting in the back and “being quiet” so to speak. While I would never disrupt a meeting, I am also very aware that there are likely to be things said that will irritate me and which I just plain don’t believe (and don’t believe the speaker “knows” either). I tried to practice ignoring these kinds of things during GC, meeting with limited success (but not total failure).

I do plan to return, but only attend SM.

I think that is a pretty good strategy. I think part of the growth comes from deciding what you feel good doing, and then doing it on your terms. The church is there to help you and for your family. Use it for how it helps.

Of course, it helps others by giving them things to do … and sometimes others’ feel they need to reach out to you or put you on their projects list. They truly believe they are doing good by doing that, and it is good…some people would be offended if no one ever reached out to them.

But just because they feel they need to invite you to do more, like go to all 3 hours of church, or whatever, doesn’t mean that is what you feel is good for you. So…do what you feel is right. Allow others to do what they feel is right. Be as tolerant of their orthodoxy as you want them to be of your unorthodoxy. Going on Sunday to SM can be a good approach.

Our RS lesson and the comments made only reminded me that the church still has a long way to go before we could actually feel welcome and accepted in the way that Uchtdorf talked about.

Ya…that doesn’t surprise me (although it still makes me sad for your situation). Others won’t admit it, but they choose from the buffet of conference materials and teachings. If they hear talks about being 100% obedient, and that inspires them, they will latch on to that and keep doing what they are doing, and maybe not partake as much on the other talks of tolerance and acceptance of others and differences. I think we all have limited capacity and end up picking and choosing what we want from the buffet.

For some, Elder Oaks was a great talk, and affirms their feelings. For others, they wish President Uchtdorf was held up as the important message all should embrace now. In the end, things move forward and change is possible but slow.

Maybe that will change in the future.

There is more realistic hopes for change within our own hearts than to hope for change at church. Who knows…at some point in the future, you may feel different about those RS lessons and comments. Maybe not. I think the church isn’t going anywhere. Do things on your terms for what is best for your family.