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November 25, 2013 at 7:12 am #208218
Anonymous
GuestIf you want to read the long version, it’s here: http://manyotherhands.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/continuing-revelation-sunday-school.html We had the ongoing revelation lesson in Sunday School today. I was at my in-laws ward. I tried to be prepared. I had quotes from our “quote of the day” thread cued and ready. When someone suggested we are the only people in the world with revelation I couldn’t let it slide. I quoted:
Quote:Latter-day Saints believe that all human beings are God’s children and that He loves all of us. He has inspired not only people of the Bible and the Book of Mormon but other people as well to carry out His purposes through all cultures and parts of the world. God inspires not only Latter-day Saints but also founders, teachers, philosophers, and reformers of other Christian and non-Christian religions.
Elder Uchtdorf
http://rsc.byu.edu/archived/global-mormonism-21st-century/20-church-cross-cultural-world Confused faces seemed to stare at me while reading the quote. I could see the cog-dis just get swept away within a moment of finishing the quote.
Once it got onto the black-priesthood issue I very, very nearly made the point that the only reason it had to wait so long was one simple word: Racism. I didn’t, I was at my TBM in-laws ward after all, but did make the point to one of them after the lesson when, in conversation, they started saying, again how wonderful the priesthood being given to all people was. Today I’m at the edge of the ocean liner, hanging over the rails. In a few weeks I’m supposed to take up the role of Branch Mission Leader. Urghh…
November 25, 2013 at 3:52 pm #277092Anonymous
GuestWere you in my ward and I didn’t even know? I read your blog and I appreciated your words…”emotionally battered”. It is completely frustrating to sit in a room where you seem to be the only one who thinks or feels that way. I have found myself making comments I feel are really “normal” and they are not. Then I realize I am not at StayLDS or NOM, back in the real world. Very discouraging.
Your post got me thinking that I have always appreciated differing comments/views in SS. I haven’t attended in several years due to a calling but I feel it is good for a person to think. I imagine no one ran up to you and appreciated your thoughts, but I am sure a few ran home and checked or likely they will recall your comment another time. I always did. Especially based on quotes and not full of anger.
If your Bishop is backing you up as WML, go for it. The members of our ward who have been pestered and harassed would have loved to have you in your genuine and sincere mannerlisten to them. You are needed and it gives me some hope that a Bishop somewhere may “get it”, certainly not either of the last two we had.
November 25, 2013 at 8:46 pm #277093Anonymous
GuestGodisLove wrote:Were you in my ward and I didn’t even know?
I read your blog and I appreciated your words…”emotionally battered”. It is completely frustrating to sit in a room where you seem to be the only one who thinks or feels that way. I have found myself making comments I feel are really “normal” and they are not. Then I realize I am not at StayLDS or NOM, back in the real world. Very discouraging.
Your post got me thinking that I have always appreciated differing comments/views in SS. I haven’t attended in several years due to a calling but I feel it is good for a person to think. I imagine no one ran up to you and appreciated your thoughts, but I am sure a few ran home and checked or likely they will recall your comment another time. I always did. Especially based on quotes and not full of anger.
If your Bishop is backing you up as WML, go for it. The members of our ward who have been pestered and harassed would have loved to have you in your genuine and sincere mannerlisten to them. You are needed and it gives me some hope that a Bishop somewhere may “get it”, certainly not either of the last two we had.
Thanks. I would imagine the “choking back the tears” emotion in my voice might have sounded like anger. Maybe it partly was. I need to work on that.
November 25, 2013 at 11:42 pm #277094Anonymous
Guestmackay11 wrote:When someone suggested we are the only people in the world with revelation I couldn’t let it slide. I quoted:
I remember a BOM lesson about there being only two churches, one of the devil and the other of the lamb. It was talked about how the church of the devil inculded many things – even entire systems of government. I asked if the church of the lamb might similarly include more than just the Mormon faith. It didn’t go very well. I had thought that it was a very reasonable question.
November 26, 2013 at 2:39 am #277095Anonymous
GuestRoy wrote:mackay11 wrote:When someone suggested we are the only people in the world with revelation I couldn’t let it slide. I quoted:
I remember a BOM lesson about there being only two churches, one of the devil and the other of the lamb. It was talked about how the church of the devil inculded many things – even entire systems of government. I asked if the church of the lamb might similarly include more than just the Mormon faith. It didn’t go very well.
I had thought that it was a very reasonable question.On a bad day, it really feels like there’s no oxygen in the room. I breathe shallowly and remind myself that I used to be fine with it.
November 26, 2013 at 3:57 am #277096Anonymous
GuestI attended a different ward yesterday, and the lesson was about correlation. The teacher asked why we have correlation in the Church, and, after a couple of generic answers, I raised my hand and said: Quote:I always hear people say that it’s to make sure the converts in other parts of the world don’t teach from their own religious traditions but stick to the core Gospel instead, but nearly all of the really wild speculation and outlandish stuff I’ve heard in my life has been in wards like my own here in the United States from people who talk about politics and their own doctrinal hobbies. We tend to blame others for things, but we just as often are the reason for policies and practices like correlation.
I said it with a smile and a chuckle, in a ward where only my in-laws knew me, and I got knowing nods, smiles and chuckles in response. Sometimes, “outsiders” can get away with saying what’s hard for “insiders” to say – but the smile and chuckle go a long way to help acceptance, as well. November 26, 2013 at 10:10 am #277097Anonymous
GuestOld-Timer wrote:I attended a different ward yesterday, and the lesson was about correlation. The teacher asked why we have correlation in the Church, and, after a couple of generic answers, I raised my hand and said:
Quote:I always hear people say that it’s to make sure the converts in other parts of the world don’t teach from their own religious traditions but stick to the core Gospel instead, but nearly all of the really wild speculation and outlandish stuff I’ve heard in my life has been in wards like my own here in the United States from people who talk about politics and their own doctrinal hobbies. We tend to blame others for things, but we just as often are the reason for policies and practices like correlation.
I said it with a smile and a chuckle, in a ward where only my in-laws knew me, and I got knowing nods, smiles and chuckles in response. Sometimes, “outsiders” can get away with saying what’s hard for “insiders” to say – but the smile and chuckle go a long way to help acceptance, as well. Last year I was the only Brit in a mainly American ex-pat ward. I used to makes lots of “borderland” comments. I had several different people say to me that they really appreciated my comments and that they felt they could never get away with saying things like that but having it said in my British accent just made it seem more thoughtful. Having moved back to UK I’ve lost that “advantage.” Given what I was going through last year, I found it odd that I was seen as one of the “learned” ones at church!
But you’re right. Saying things with a smile makes a huge difference. I was just so emotionally wound up on Sunday that I struggled to even speak. Maybe next time I should stay silent.
November 26, 2013 at 10:26 am #277098Anonymous
GuestRoy wrote:mackay11 wrote:When someone suggested we are the only people in the world with revelation I couldn’t let it slide. I quoted:
I remember a BOM lesson about there being only two churches, one of the devil and the other of the lamb. It was talked about how the church of the devil inculded many things – even entire systems of government. I asked if the church of the lamb might similarly include more than just the Mormon faith. It didn’t go very well. I had thought that it was a very reasonable question.
I gave a lesson a couple of years ago, while a TBM, about how the church of the lamb is clearly not the Mormons. It’s a state of mind, an attitude. I made the point that we can start the day being part of the church of the lamb and finish the day very much not.
The origin of the word “church” is germanic, meaning “house or power.” In
it goes back to the word “gathering” or to be “called out.” In Hebrew there is no word for church. For a TBM audience the word could be speculated on the plates as being the Hebrew “kahal” [קהל- ka-HAL], which also means “gathering of people” or “community.” There is no Hebrew word for Church, it’s a modern, Christian concept. The word does not mean “denomination” and never has, but is often understood that way.greekSo you can make it “there are save but two powers, the power of the devil and the power of the lamb” or “the gathering of the devil and the gathering of the lamb.” I love that perspective. I also love that it says “the lamb.” While we of course take that to be Jesus Christ, I think it can be more universal than that. The influence/teachings of Confucius, Buddha, the Dalai Lama etc are all the teaching of “the lamb.”
I’ll have to see if I can dig the lesson out. I didn’t realise how “middle-way” I was sometimes.
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