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Suppose you had the ability to leave the church clean. By that I mean you and all your family and friends that mattered would leave at the same time. You essentially would have nothing keeping you attached to the church and you would be free to explore other religions or no relgion. If you had that magic wand would you wave it? I wouldn’t, for a few major reasons: 1) I absolutely love the over-arching theology. Nothing else works for me at that level (the closest being Buddhism), but I like the Savior/Atonement aspect of my own interpretation of Christianity.
2) I already am free to study and learn from all other traditions, so I don’t need to leave the LDS Church for that benefit.
3) I really like so much of the non-theological doctrine and culture (even as I don’t like so much in those arenas), and I love associating with most of the members I’ve known in my life.
4) I’m comfortable being me after all these decades honing my place.
5) I am a social, religious / spiritual creature. I need to affiliate and associate with others in a religious community, and there isn’t another community of which I would feel as much a part.
6) Most importantly, the other members in my family, and lots of my extended family, really love their membership – and I don’t think it’s legitimate to say, “Well, what if that wasn’t the case?” It is the case, and my life isn’t about just me. Really, at this point, it’s not even primarily about me. It’s much more important that I have learned to find the right way for me to stay happily LDS and maintain the happiness of so many people in my life than that I speculate about what it would be like if it was all about me.
Yes and no. I did leave for over a decade, but I am a free agent, no wife,
no family in church. I can take or leave a lot of stuff, and I do. And I
can and do look at other religious traditions on a regular basis, both
to seek truth (and I find it occasionally), and to educate myself about
other people.
So I’m free to leave, but I’ve made good friends in the church, and it
has definitely improved my quality of life despite all its faults and
frustrations. It has helped me with everything from house cleaning to
improving my health, to employment advice, alongside the spiritual
stuff.
I surprised myself by voting no… even though I contacted my BP three weeks ago about meeting up with him. I intended to inform him that I wanted out of my calling and the plan was to just fade into the background while I sorted things out. The BP was out of town that week so I missed my meeting, then I found this site. I’ve since postponed the meeting as this site has given me a lot to think about.
I answered no to the question:
Cadence wrote:If you had that magic wand would you wave it?
Personally I think if I ever did decide to leave the church I’d want it to be messy. Now I’m not saying that I would make a scene, but I think on some levels I’d be depriving myself from the insights that the hardships of leaving the church would provide. There’s probably a lesson in there somewhere, even if I didn’t appreciate or even enjoy learning it at the time. Something to look back on and recognize as a learning experience. Big talk from someone that isn’t on that path though.
And it’s very different for me anyway. Being a convert I’m sure some family members would jump for joy if I told them I was done with the church.
I’d also currently answer no just because I think there are some good lessons for my children to learn in church. In that sense church still plays the role of a community of moral anchors in their lives. The church is the door they need to enter through and then they can walk their own path on the other side.
Maybe I should have gone with “it depends.”
:Lover of nuance, I am. 😳 Hard for me to really answer I would leave without knowing where I would be going to. I wouldn’t leave because I just want to get away from it, or I would have left already.
What is there better out there for me to be a part of? Where would I go to feel a part of something divine, even if not perfectly divine?
As Wendy Ulrich writes:
Quote:When Christ asks the question of His remaining disciples, “will ye also go away?” it seems to be in recognition that they may be feeling betrayed or disillusioned by His words and requirements, as others were. Their response is not brimming with irrational enthusiasm. They seem to say, somewhat wistfully, as if recognizing that perhaps leaving would be an easier choice, “to whom, Lord, shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life.” We do not leave because we are blind to the challenges or brainwashed into commitment, but because we will have more cognitive dissonance, more to explain to ourselves, if we leave. We have found here things that we hold dear, that support and enrich our lives. We, like the reluctant disciples of old, have found here words of eternal life, which is to say that we have found knowledge of God and Jesus Christ, whom He has sent. These relationships, these pearls of great price, are worth the sacrifices and the disappointments and the askance looks of our friends who wonder what we could be thinking.
And so we say with the father of the lunatic child, “Lord, I believe, help thou my unbelief.” We recognize that our beliefs matter more than our doubts, though we will have some of both. We recognize the need for commitment despite uncertainty, frustration, and disillusionment. In fact, people who study long-term marriage relationships tell us that they go through four predictable stages that include both high hopes and deep discouragement. Psychologist Allen Bergin proposes that these stages are equally applicable in all long-term, committed relationships, including relationships with children, parents, the Church, and God.
She goes on to give the four stages:
1) Honeymoon bliss
2) Power struggles and wrestling for control in our lives
3) Withdrawal, feeling futility in the power struggle
4) Renewal, re-commitment with realistic expectations of the relationship.
I think if I left the church, I’d simply go through the same process, just in another place. So I wouldn’t wish I could leave unless the alternative was better than staying. And that is a realistic option, just not one that I feel now in the church. I find great strength in the church, more than needed to outweigh my doubts and struggles.
Gotta agree with you Heber. Where would be going to? In some cases, not a better place.
I think people forget sometimes that their gripes are not peculiarly Mormon. Bad leadership, cliquishness, snobbery, backstabbing, hurtful comments etc are to be found in many, many places….
I do, however, have great sympathy with certain board members who have had bad experiences. I couldn’t see myself staying in certain wards. I am lucky with the one I’m in.
No 1) The church has been such a big part in my extended family heritage. It has been pretty positive for me and I have had a good upbringing. There is some amount of loyalty there because it is part of my identity.
2) The thought of every church member that I love leaving the church at the same time is actually incredibly sad. To imagine my grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and friends cutting themselves loose from something that has provided them with comfort and stability over these long years is not something that I would desire.
3) I have managed to cut the costs of church membership to acceptable levels. I live according to the dictates of my own conscience and don’t feel guilty when someone else thinks that I should do more.
4) I continue to enjoy church benefits. I will baptize and Confirm DD next week.
If I knew for sure it wasn’t true, I would leave — provided I had all my family with me and there were no consequences. i put “not sure” because I realize I am agnostic about the church. Being agnostic about it makes it hard to answer questions like these. SilentDawning wrote:If I knew for sure it wasn’t true, I would leave — provided I had all my family with me and there were no consequences. i put “not sure” because I realize I am agnostic about the church. Being agnostic about it makes it hard to answer questions like these.
I can say with conviction that it is much more likely that it is not true than it is. I would put it at about 99 to 1. So life being what it is with no absolutes I think you have to go with the most sensible path.I think I can say with close to absolute confidence that the LDS Church is as true as any other, at the very least, so we are dealing firmly in the realm of personal choice. That’s why the hypothetical doesn’t work for me. I’m not an island, so even if I was inclined to leave I wouldn’t do so. [ Admin Note]: Be careful to articulate exactly what you mean in comments like the last one, Cadence. I think I am reading it correctly when I read it as saying staying is the sensible choice, given the family’s attachment to the Church. If I am wrong and it was encouragement to leave since you believe “the Church isn’t true”, knock it off. That’s not consistent with the mission of this site. Again, I don’t think that’s what you meant, but it’s ambiguous enough that it could be read either way.
I said no because of the family. I can see that many benefit from their membership, even though that benefit might change for them if they knew all the facts and felt like me. Some people just do better believing in something, whether it is true or not. I think if I was on my own I would just stop going but wouldn’t officially resign. I would try going to other churches just for the reason to see how others do it. I have Jewish roots so I might check that out. I don’t know if I could, I really have some aspects of the LDS theology buried in my core, even if I left I would gauge my life by them, so my leaving would only be moving away. That said on my Stage 4 days I contemplate worshipping some where else just for the joy of worship. For that I would either head Quaker direction or Buddhist. But Mormonism is my first spiritual language, I fall back to it with out even thinking. I have never seen the benefits of leaving, except in very narrow circumstances. If a person leaves, there is a temporary payoff when you can tell the leaders what you really think with less fear of impunity because you are leaving anyway. The dubious satisfaction of telling someone official in the church what you really think, the ‘taking a stand” part of it all can be therapeutic for some people.
But that is fleeting, and I don’t see it as a healthy form of satisfaction either.
I don’t see many other benefits other than you might stop getting visits from the missionaries or home teachers. But in my experience, they don’t come over very much anyway.
And then, if you leave, and then change your mind, it’s a long, arduous path to come back to the fold again. The leaders will assert their power and authority and make you jump through hoops to get your membership back. So, you assure that the control that so many people don’t like will HAVE to assert itself if you leave the church, and then subsequently change your mind.
Add the impact and hurt it causes to believing family members, and it seems better to stay.
You also cut off options, which is something in which I have never believed. So, I don’t see the point in leaving, even if I could.
Part of me is happy that life experiences have shown me the church doesn’t care much about us as individuals. when you stop being a fully functioning member of your Ward, most people leave you alone. So its kind of like you have left anyway….
So I change my vote from not sure to “no”.
Cadence wrote:I can say with conviction that it is much more likely that it is not true than it is. I would put it at about 99 to 1. So life being what it is with no absolutes I think you have to go with the most sensible path.
I agree if you are talking about true in the sense that the church history portrayed in most church meetings is largly distorted.
Old-Timer wrote:I think I can say with close to absolute confidence that the LDS Church is as true as any other, at the very least, so we are dealing firmly in the realm of personal choice.
I also agree here. There are elements of the LDS church that are true. Some of them are beautiful and expansive and artistic. Some of them are pragmatic and organized and efficient.
Like our old pal Brian Johnson used to say. True like a ham sandwich!
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