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First, thank you for a safe place to ponder and reflect. In the last few years I have seen my current ward’s character change from a Christ centered world view to a works mentality, with behavior and appearance trumping spirituality. This began with my wife’s refusal to attend RS due to a “culture of suffering” that (for lack of better explanation) focused almost exclusively on the negative, suffering and “enduring to the end”.
She has not attended RS in five years. In the last two years that view has fully taken hold of all discussion and teaching in the ward. The focus is really on “how we act separates and protects us from them.” It is a culture of fear and despair.
I have no idea how to deal with it, my HPGroup grabbed ahold of Mitt Romney as the “white horse” and with his defeat seem to have settled on the idea that things are even worse than they thought.
Basically the gospel of hope has been replaced with the gospel of glen beck (an oft quoted prophet).
Since my sons are the only ones who attend our ward’s “rival high school” they have been ostracized, inactive and do not hold age appropriate priesthood.
I now no longer attend SS or Priesthood to shelter myself. Oddly this offends my wife greatly even though she doesn’t attend SS or RS.
Just kinda lost and alone, thanks for listening.
I’m sorry to hear you are subject to such a negative experience in church but the good news is that you’ve landed in a good spot. Welcome to the forum. I’ve only been a member a short time but already I’ve felt like it’s been a tremendous boon to my life. There are some very intelligent and loving people here.
Your story reminds me of something I read on this site where things veered into the political in a meeting and one member here spoke up and said “Hey, some of us voted for him” referring to Obama. I don’t remember what the outcome of the comment was, hopefully it dried up the political commentary. They say don’t talk politics or religion, perhaps people in church would do well to remember that from time to time.
😆 I’ve never liked talking politics, inside or outside the church. It seems to stir up contention more than anything. It’s hard to be one and united in Christ when people’s very nature is to create groups of us vs. them… and that doesn’t mean become one within the confines of the church thus creating a them of everyone else outside of the church, I think it means unity with everyone.
With respect to the culture of suffering… would you say that the environment is being facilitated by a select few, like a teacher or leader? The good news is that we all eventually get released. You mentioned 5 years so perhaps it is a culture that has permeated the group.
Quote:Since my sons are the only ones who attend our ward’s “rival high school” they have been ostracized, inactive and do not hold age appropriate priesthood.
😯 Very sorry to hear that. I know I have to keep my college football rivalries in cheque, but that’s crazy and sad.Welcome — I wouldn’t be surprised if many people feel as you and your wife do… I am also against the “endure to the end” concept. If happiness is the object and design of our existence, then why do we need to resort to “enduring to the end”, doomsday prophecy and proof of suffering as a source of motivation for remaining true to the church’s program of living one’s life?
I am not suggesting that living a clean life does not require self-discipline or sacrifice. But I am suggesting that when the LDS experience becomes one of monotony and constantly white-knuckling one’s way through unpleasant after unpleasant experience, it’s time to look at whether the our leaders are approaching the LDS experience with the right attitude.
If I had my way, we would find ways of doing local research on how members feel about their church experience. Do they leave church fulfilled spiritually? What about lesson quality? Do members believe teachers are prepared? Do we have sufficient support structures in place to ensure our programs are of sufficient quality to help others believe we do have a corner on truth as we claim?
Do we ask people to engage in MEANINGFUL service that truly helps people? Or do we focus on habits that have the semblance of service, but are more social obligations or mechanistic programs than service that truly meets the needs of the members? Do we label free labor for the church ‘service’ at the expense of our community? Does the church experience meet the social, and spiritual needs of the members? And are people ENGAGED with their church experience?
If the answers are No, we need to look at our own operating principles and see how we can address them to improve these gaps.
But no — we resort to top-down policy, duty, expectations of obedience, and often, doomsday motivation to get people to do things, while ignoring the impact of our own policies on members’ behavior.
Some time I need to tell you about some techniques I used that totally energized our HP quorum. They created a significant amount of energy and engagement from our quorum. I use these techniques today in other contexts and they helped dramatically. I wish the church leaders would catch the vision. I don’t claim to have a magic bullet or 100% of the answers, but techniques that recognize people have a diversity of talents, that some missions of the church are NOT a strength of individual wards or quorums, and that people need significant choice in where and how they serve in the church — is at the heart of it.
And isn’t this kind of agency and respect for individual choice a goal for which God sacrificed one third of the host of heaven?
[Aside, this little expose here has me wishing I could be a HPGL again. I would not focus on home teaching. I would use other methods to get results a different way to get results, other than home teaching. Hometeaching numbers would likely deteriorate, but quorum engagement, attendance at events and meetings would flourish — and show the leaders who are fixated on worn out programs like home teaching that you can achieve results multiple ways — and the HT, for example, is one “endure to the end” program that needs to be re-examined]
Frankly, it seems to have its root in the Martin handcart stuff from a few years ago. Almost a cult of personality came out of it where the more you suffered the better you were. I came across some comments that could almost be read: “I sure wish something awful like that would happen to me!” It’s odd.
My wife was hopeful that the RS would change with new leadership but no joy, likewise a bishop change brought no relief. It’s truly an odd dynamic.
The Church often can be as true as the local leadership and culture allow it to be. I’m sorry to hear about the local environment, and I know more than one person here can understand from personal experience.
Welcome. I hope we can be a bit of a safe haven for you.
I recommend the book “Believing Christ”. It represents a much more christ centered and hopeful view of the gospel complete with supporting LDS scriptures. That book showed me that Chrst centered Mormonism is theologically sound – even if under represented in many local areas. Works needn’t be bad. So many Christians talk of Christ, but don’t emulate him. So I think it’s important we do as well as say. Without going into Mitt’s politics, a couple of points… wasn’t Orrin Hatch the white horse once, or did I imagine it? Secondly, I remember some news team popped over to a temple, and interviewed members. They were surprised that some folk were voting DEMOCRAT and didn’t want Mitt to win! Why? Not because they hated Romney, or the Republican party, but because they felt that if Romney did something questionable, or enacted unpopular policy, as most politicians do, that it would reflect badly on the church. As it happens he was gracious in defeat… but I understand this mentality… they didn’t want Romney’s failings confused with the church.
Out of interest, did you know the US has had a Jehovah’s Witness president? Kind of. Brownie points if you know who.
Lucky enough to have taken courses from Br. Robinson! Great guy. The only issue I would raise thinking on this is that we aren’t always what we do and what we do seems paramount in my ward. One of the Stake Presidents (close friend) has even offered his condolences at our being in “such a challenging ward”. I do believe that there is a clear under current of “if I keep the commandments God will be bound.” Which I guess could be true but ala Cool Hand I’d rather “get my heart right.” It’s a curious ward, we have an annual and expensive steak feed “Bishop Appreciation” dinner complete with..testimonies (?) at the end of the show about how swell he is…having been YMP, EQP, B2, HPG2, SSP, and doing NT, D&C and BOM as Gospel Doctrine teacher I completely understand the work that poor dog puts in. Being Bishop looks to be a brutal gig. Where else does someone come in and say, “fix my kid/wife/husband and make them obey”? I am empathetic.
What is odd to me and I can’t sort out, is that the spirit flees when I get to church. I’ve been teaching high school for the last ten years and the spirit walks the halls with me. I am filled with goodness and compassion and love and insight. Walk in the door at church? Poof. I realize this lies heavily on me, it’s not the wards fault, but I can approach a teen throwing the f bomb and be holding the Holy Ghost’s hand through the whole ride. At church I feel an overwhelming sense of unhappiness and I can get the urge to scoot. It’s wierd, it’s on me, and I have never experienced this before.
I admire your humility,but don’t put too much “on you”. Sometimes the wards are just dysfunctional. What is on your shoulders is just how you navigate through the environment you’re in. It’s ok to admit you are in a good community (school) but bad ward, and you feel the spirit in other places outside the church. There is no problem with that. You just need to find a place of comfort in realizing your reality. Call it like it is, and let go of “should be different” scenarios. The church is what it is. You are the captain of your ship.
If you are interested, the following is from By Common Consent back in 2009. It’s one of my favorite posts about the idea that the Lord is bound in some way. “
I the Lord Am Bound” ( http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/10/25/i-the-lord-am-bound/ Old-Timer wrote:If you are interested, the following is from By Common Consent back in 2009. It’s one of my favorite posts about the idea that the Lord is bound in some way.
“
I the Lord Am Bound” ( http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/10/25/i-the-lord-am-bound/ OK. The vending machine imagery is brilliant. Myself, the idea that you can make God owe you one and purchase salvation through mercenary compliance just points out that you’ve violated the first commandment and do not love The Lord thy God with all your mind…you love him like you love an ice cream machine.
Just a thought, and I don’t know where you live or the feasibility of it, but you mentioned you are close friends with the SP. Any chance if you explained your struggles to him (not in so much detail as to endanger your standing in the church) that he might approve attending a different ward? (SamBee, if you’re referring to Eisenhower, he was clearly not an active Witness, he openly denied being a Witness, and he was also affiliated with other churches. The latter is forbidden by The Watchtower Society, and his career as a soldier is also incompatible with their teachings.)
Yep, that’s the point. not an adult JW, but raised one. Curious fact, anyway. Mind you, Nixon came from a Quaker background and wasn’t exactly orthodox either. They’re pacifists but he wasn’t.
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