I wish I could un-see the City Creek mall opening

It is unsavory. I can’t picture the Pope or the Dalai Lama saying it.

But here’s why the mall doesn’t bother me that much:

1) it’s an investment, so it’s designed to have a higher return than the original outlay. We invest in stocks & bonds, gaming preserves, land, etc; this is just a very visible investment.

2) it’s a “broken windows theory” approach to revitalising downtown. Downtown SLC is kind of a pit, no offense to those from Utah who haven’t been to a lot of other places, but it is not a “nice” downtown area. It’s getting better. The Gateway mall helped when the Olympics came to town. Crime, panhandling, and dilapidated buildings have been the norm downtown for decades. Particularly the area right around the temple has been getting worse and worse since the Crossroads and ZCMI started to decline. (Rudy Guiliani was following Broken Windows theory when he revitalised NYC in the 1990s. They cracked down on small crimes like vandalism and turnstile jumping, and it had benefit to the overall safeness and beauty of the city. Either that or abortion law did.)

3) it’s not that extravagant. Seriously. I just went there a couple months ago, and based on what people on line were saying I expected it to be full of Chanel and Hermes stores. It’s a nice upscale mall, period. It’s not outlandish. This is the kind of mall I’d expect to see in Denver, Seattle, San Diego, etc.

Yeah, the “let’s go shopping!” lacks decorum (at a minimum). I’ve also seen seen President Monson do and say other things that make me scratch my head. That being said I cut him slack because I do believe he’s a very good man who is getting a little long in the tooth. I think it’s possible he / they got carried away in the moment. As arguably the most recognizable person to most Utahs, and as someone who had to travel all of 5 minutes to get there, it made sense to include him and the 1st presidency. Leaders get asked to attend all kinds of events and I wonder how many of them would have rather been elsewhere anyways.

I’m possibly in the minority in this forum with this belief, but the mall doesn’t bother me. It seems like a sound investment, and as one who visits downtown SLC frequently I welcome the revitalization.

I’m actually fine with the mall, and I believe them when they say no tithing money was used. I believe the mall and other downtown improvements are vital to the city, and urban revitalization is something other cities are doing also. Corporations often help in this process because they have money and recognize the benefits of being in places people want to be. The whole business end of the church doesn’t really bother me, either – in fact I think it makes some sense. All that said, I do agree there may have been a bit of a lack of decorum on the part of Pres. Monson, and as mentioned I couldn’t see the pope doing so. Nevertheless, he is as human as I am and I can cut him the same slack I cut others.

Joni, while I’m in no place to make any promises, it’s a pretty sure bet you’ll get a FP member there to dedicate your temple. It’s rare that one of them doesn’t, especially considering the relative youth and health we currently enjoy in that body.

BTW, I have never seen the video, and like the CES fireside on Sunday, I sometimes know when to avoid seeing something. This is apparently one of those cases.

The panhandlers and the people who were causing the area to be ‘run down’ are still out there. They’ve just been relocated to an area further away from Temple Square visitors and General Conference traffic. I am saying sincerely and without snark, that doesn’t feel Christlike to me.

I don’t feel that the mall was a wise use of funds or a good investment. That’s opinion. The mall was opened (I don’t know if ‘dedicated’ is the right word) by all three members of the First Presidency. That’s fact. I don’t feel good about a mall opening meriting that sort of ecclesiastical attention. I’m having a hard time preventing those feelings from interfering with my already shaky testimony. How?

My advice:

See their attendance as being that of leaders of the corporate arm of the Church that actually funded the project, not as ecclesiastical leaders. None of the non-profit, church funds were used, so see them in that situation as nothing more than citizens of the city – leading business men in that moment. See this as one of their non-religious leader moments.

This is not a simple thing, since the mere fact that the Church has a corporate arm bothers some people, but it’s a valid view, I think. Even Jesus needed a treasurer to finance his ministry, and even he had to raise / solicit money to provide a living (so to speak), so even he had a “corporate arm”, in a real way.

Jesus needing a treasurer isn’t the same as Jesus being a treasurer. The problem as I see it here is that there was no visible separation between the ecclesiastical and the corporate. Sending all three members of the FP was unwise IMHO. It implies the Lord’s stamp of approval – it shouldn’t, but it does. If they had sent, say, the presiding bishop I wouldn’t be upset about this (though the phrase “Let’s go shopping!” still really, really grates.)

I think that the City Creek opening underlines a pretty serious paradox in the thought process of the rank and file of the Church. On the one hand we say, “The leadership of the Church is inspired by God and will never lead us astray!” On the other hand we say, “The Church is perfect; the people aren’t.” But the leadership of the Church, even President Monson, are just people so they can’t possibly be perfect. We either need to pick the model where the FP is infallible and questioning them is heresy, or the model where their fundamentally imperfect decisions are open for discussion, but right now we’re straddling the fence.

1) I agree that members of the 1P usually do temple dedications. It seemed like GBH did every dedication for about a 20 year span when he was the most youthful and energetic member.

2) The church did the same revitilization method next to the Ogden temple by tearing down an old dilapitated mall and building high end condominiums. I imagine that you wouldn’t have the same difficulty if the church had build a condominium tower in SLC instead of a mall. I personally like malls but I can see them falling out of favor. I read a report this morning that said they could be all but extinct in 15 years. Apparently everyone is moving to online purchases.

I think that the City Creek opening underlines a pretty serious paradox in the thought process of the rank and file of the Church. On the one hand we say, “The leadership of the Church is inspired by God and will never lead us astray!” On the other hand we say, “The Church is perfect; the people aren’t.” But the leadership of the Church, even President Monson, are just people so they can’t possibly be perfect. We either need to pick the model where the FP is infallible and questioning them is heresy, or the model where their fundamentally imperfect decisions are open for discussion, but right now we’re straddling the fence.

There are things that you will hear at church that are just plain wrong. “Will never lead us astray” and “The Church is perfect” are some great examples of that. Elder Holland and Pres. Uchtdorf have both recently said over the pulpit in GC that church leaders are imperfect and make mistakes. I know it requires a fundamental shift, but imagine a church of just regular people and then imagine God respecting and honoring and sometimes even helping in their efforts to be better and build a legacy for their children.

I live in Indianapolis, where our temple is fiiiiiiiinally being constructed. When it’s done, do you think we will rate all 3 members of the First Presidency to dedicate it? Or even one? Or even a member of the Q12? We’ll probably get a Seventy for our dedication. (You could argue, of course, that the City Creek mall is just around the corner from the COB so it wasn’t much of a commute. I could argue back that it’s 2014, and we have these things called airplanes now. ) What does that tell us about the importance our Church places on things like temples vs. high-end shopping malls?

For what it’s worth, I really do think the fact that the mall is right around the corner from where First Presidency members live is a significant factor. It takes a lot more resources and time to fly to Indianapolis