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There’s a woman on a Facebook LDS singles page and she’s asking some questions too many members of the church don’t want to find out about or they just give you the standard Sunday school answer crap. This is what I what I told her:
Quote:Actually, I have friends in the church who are really having faith issues over that stuff. I also had some faith issues over that stuff. What helped through much of it was realizing that even the Lord’s prophet Thomas S. Monson (I still have a strong testimony of him as propeht, though.) as well as other prophets throughout time can be wrong about things. (even points of doctrine, programs of the church, what he understands the Lord’s standards are, etc, etc). I’m not saying your shouldn’t have faith in what he teaches. You should. What I’m saying is be open minded about learning all the things, if you are too grow spiritually.
I would have thought most people in the church could agree on that. But noooo, some jackass comes across with the usual dribble:
Quote:They will never make mistakes on those things. The Lord will not allow it. However, they will make human mistakes. Joseph Smith actually chewed out Brigham Young before the congregation once and later apologized to him and the entire congregation for what he had done.
See what I mean? How do you guys wrap your heads around those things.
I do struggle with dealing with stuff like that from time to time. Honestly, I try to ignore it. There are many other examples of this type of thinking, not just of things related to the church but to religion in general. Prayer is a really good one – there’s always some new caveat on why a prayer might not be answered, but even the slightest evidence a prayer could have the remotest possibility of being answered is headlined and aggrandized. I do have a belief that people should be able to choose what they believe and don’t believe, and if they choose to believe things that the evidence clearly contradicts, that’s their problem, not mine. It will do no good to argue with them or try to point out their error, as you realize, they do indeed see without seeing and hear without hearing. The church is mostly based on confirmation bias. Members are taught from early on to look for things that confirm their belief and avoid those that do not. This is a human thing we all do to some extent. It takes real effort and training to look outside the box and question beliefs we have held for some time. I have to try and remember this when things seems so utterly logical to me yet others will spin it in a very illogical way to meet the requirements of their belief. Stage 3. Most churches are built up to and supported by primarily stage 3 individuals. Most people value security over discovery – both inside and outside the LDS Church. Settlers simply see things differently than explorers, and there ALWAYS is a tension between those two groups. It’s not being blind; it’s seeing things differently (and looking or not looking for different reasons). There is a HUGE difference between those two conditions.
Frankly, I accept it. I try to help people see some things if they are open to it, but there’s no way I would make them stare at the sun if it will blind them. I’d rather they be happy and see through their glasses, darkly (just like I am but with different views), than be the cause of blindness.
Ilovechrist77, I know what you mean, and sometimes it can be frustrating. But the further I get from my faith transition, the less it annoys me. It is what they believe. There is no reason to criticize the faith of others.
Golden Rule (Mormonism): “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience and
allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. (Articles of Faith 11)” Golden Rule (Christianity): “All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them. (Matt 7:12)”
Golden Rule (Hinduism): “One should never do that to another which one regards as injurious to one’s own self. (Anusasana Parva, Section CXIII, Verse
“Golden Rule (Islam): “Woe to those… who, when they have to receive by measure from men, they demand exact full measure, but when they have to give by measure or weight to men, give less than due. (Surah 83)”
Golden Rule (Buddhism): “One who, while himself seeking happiness, oppresses with violence other beings who also desire happiness, will not attain happiness hereafter. (Dharmmapada 10)”
In other words, it is their faith. Allow them to believe what they want to believe, just as you hope that they will allow you the same. Instead, as you have done, express your own thoughts and let them choose for themselves. You expressed yourself and your beliefs very well. Your words got through to some, I’m sure. That someone else has a different faith is of no importance. They do not think of themselves as blind any more than you do. Yet there are many here to think of them as blind and many of them who think of us as blind. I think it is better to think of each other as brothers.
Quote:“We all have blind spots. The problem is we are blind to them.”
Well, thank you for all the comments. I greatly appreciate it. Ray and Roy, you two made great comments about most members being settlers and in stage 3 and not to judge them. I just wish most would become explorers or move onto later faith stages. Oh well. That’s life. But many of my closest friends and family are stage 3 members of the church. I’m sorry to have called that man that gave my friend that reply online a jackass. He wasn’t really being that. He was just expressing what he’s been taught all his life. I believe Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and Jesus Christ were both settlers and explorers. On Own Now, I also like your statement quite a bit. Quote:Ilovechrist77,
I know what you mean, and sometimes it can be frustrating. But the further I get from my faith transition, the less it annoys me. It is what they believe. There is no reason to criticize the faith of others.
Golden Rule (Mormonism): “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. (Articles of Faith 11)”
Golden Rule (Christianity): “All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them. (Matt 7:12)”
Golden Rule (Hinduism): “One should never do that to another which one regards as injurious to one’s own self. (Anusasana Parva, Section CXIII, Verse
“Golden Rule (Islam): “Woe to those… who, when they have to receive by measure from men, they demand exact full measure, but when they have to give by measure or weight to men, give less than due. (Surah 83)”
Golden Rule (Buddhism): “One who, while himself seeking happiness, oppresses with violence other beings who also desire happiness, will not attain happiness hereafter. (Dharmmapada 10)”
In other words, it is their faith. Allow them to believe what they want to believe, just as you hope that they will allow you the same. Instead, as you have done, express your own thoughts and let them choose for themselves. You expressed yourself and your beliefs very well. Your words got through to some, I’m sure. That someone else has a different faith is of no importance. They do not think of themselves as blind any more than you do. Yet there are many here to think of them as blind and many of them who think of us as blind. I think it is better to think of each other as brothers.
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