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  • #208305
    Anonymous
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    I just finished reading Alan Rock Waterman’s “Why I’m Abondoning Polygamy” on Pure Mormonism. It is basically his version of Polygamy in Joseph Smith’s time and paints Joseph as a non-polygamist who is conspired against by the usual polygamist suspects of the day, including Brigham Young, many of his polygamist wives and John C. Bennet (who I was not familiar with).

    This narrative is completely new to me and somewhat compelling, but it is so drastically different than the story I have come to know. I am interested to know this communities take on this story and even any insights regarding Alan and the Pure Mormonism blog in general. I have really enjoyed some of his other articles including “Are we paying too much tithing?”

    #278112
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Waterman has various positions that paint Joseph as “cleanly” as possible. In that way, he is fundamentalist at the most basic level.

    He has some things that I like and some things that I don’t like. I think his desire to defend Joseph gets in the way of objectivity, even more than it does for many people.

    I think his view of polygamy is one of the best examples of that tendency.

    #278113
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks that is the type of review I was hoping to balance out his position. I guess it is easier for him to stay if he can paint the founder in the best light possible. If so, it seems like mental gymnastics to me.

    Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

    #278114
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I agree with Ray on this. I like a few of Rock’s posts, and have even shared some with friends. Early in my faith transition I was very drawn to fundamentalist ideas. If the blame for the…complicated nature of the church…could be blamed on post JS leaders, one can still cling to mormonism at it’s roots. I even read this post on polygamy and really liked it and wanted it to be true. But further study just wouldn’t let me hold on to it. There’s just better, stronger evidence (IMO) that he did institute and practice polygamy. My views have changed (and likely will continue to change) concerning polygamy. There are other ways to come to terms with it than denying that it happened. :)

    #278115
    Anonymous
    Guest

    When I first read this post at Pure Mormonism, I was completely caught off guard. Honestly, I wanted to believe it. Ultimately, I went to a source I felt I could trust for an honest assessment, a brilliant scholar who is also a member of the COC (same as the authors of the book Rock reviewed). He confirmed Joseph’s practice of polygamy and said the Price book was a rehash of an old and unsubstantiated apologetic.

    I took his words at face value and in spite of how much more I would prefer to believe Joseph did not practice whatever the heck he practiced…

    #278116
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I would love for the article to be how it actually happened, but sadly it is not. Waterman is either so blind or so intentionally deceitful that I could not finish reading the piece. A couple examples:

    – The 1835 did indeed include in Section 101 an article on marriage. Waterman doesn’t mention that this section was neither written as nor presented as a revelation. It is clearly written as a policy document. First sentence: “According to the custom of all civilized nations, marriage is regulated by laws and ceremonies: therefore we believe, that all marriages of this church of Christ of Latter Day Saints, should be solemnized in a public meeting…” More importantly, Waterman doesn’t mention that the article was drafted, voted on, and placed into the D&C by the publishing committee, all while JS was away. Generally, I believe it is considered an attempt by Oliver Cowdery to force JS away from polygamy, something that OC hated and actively fought during his time with the Church.

    – Speaking about Section 132, Waterman says, “No one had ever heard of it during Joseph Smith’s lifetime. It showed up as if by magic eight years after his death.” That is completely inaccurate. I have my doubts that Section 132 as we have it today originated with JS, but there WAS a “revelation” that JS used to legitimize polygamy. We don’t know whether 132 is that revelation or no. We can’t know. First of all, surely Waterman realizes that you can’t prove a negative, so his assertion that “No one had ever heard of it during JS’s lifetime” is an impossible position to hold. In fact, many referenced the “revelation”, including William Law. Law wrote in the Nauvoo Expositor, printed during JS’s lifetime, the following: “I hereby certify that Hyrum Smith did, (in his office) read to me a certain written document, which he said was a revelation from God, he said that he was with Joseph when it w as received. He afterwards gave me the document to read, and I took it to my house, and read it, and showed it to my wife, and returned it next day. The revelation (so called) authorized certain men to have more wives than one at a time, in this world and in the world to come. It said this was the law, and commanded Joseph to enter into the law. And also that he should administer to others. Several other items were in the revelation, supporting the above doctrines.”

    Finally, let me add that even the Reorganized Church (Community of Christ), which had as its main platform a complete denial of polygamy for its first 100 years, now openly admits that JS himself “was a significant source for plural marriage teaching and practice at Nauvoo”.

    #278117
    Anonymous
    Guest

    “Why I’m Abandoning Polygamy”

    Because it requires me to believe in a God who gives a 19th-century American man, married to the bride of his youthful choosing, a direct, specific order to break apart their marriage and her heart. I don’t believe it.

    For me, polygamy in the church isn’t about all the obedient people who practiced it. It isn’t about the self-serving or desperate practitioners of it. It isn’t about the heartbreak and sadness of it, or the peace and contentment of it. Or about the millions of good members (I’m married to one) descended from polygamist ancestors whom they revere. It’s about God. Every time the church insists, No, no, really, God absolutely did command it, step by step laid it all out for Joseph, my spirits sink.

    #278118
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Ann wrote:

    “Why I’m Abandoning Polygamy”

    Because it requires me to believe in a God who gives a 19th-century American man, married to the bride of his youthful choosing, a direct, specific order to break apart their marriage and her heart. I don’t believe it.

    For me, polygamy in the church isn’t about all the obedient people who practiced it. It isn’t about the self-serving or desperate practitioners of it. It isn’t about the heartbreak and sadness of it, or the peace and contentment of it. Or about the millions of good members (I’m married to one) descended from polygamist ancestors whom they revere. It’s about God. Every time the church insists, No, no, really, God absolutely did command it, step by step laid it all out for Joseph, my spirits sink.


    It seems as if God is the scapegoat for bad decisions, here as in other instances. Kind of ironic, but understandable, that a church claiming divine authority uses God as the scapegoat in such a way.

    Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

    #278119
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Quote:

    a church claiming divine authority uses God as the scapegoat in such a way.

    ihhi, fwiw, every religion and denomination does. It’s the flip side of “the devil made me do it” – a way to avoid accountability. Ironically, since they officially reject the idea that divine authority is vested in humans, many Protestants do it even more than Mormons – since they imbue the Bible with inerrancy.

    Just saying. 🙂

    #278120
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I like some of Alan’s stuff, my all time favorite has to be the ‘why people don’t like us’ one, have quoted it several times…

    http://puremormonism.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/why-dont-they-like-us.html

    #278121
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I like Alan’s stuff too. I think he’s perhaps been a little too enamoured by Denver Snuffer recently. Snuffer’s view is that the church went into apostasy fairly early on.

    When challenged in the comments to back up his conclusions with evidence, Alan seems to quickly back away from the article’s conclusion saying they’re not his but Price’s. That’s a bit weak in my view.

    There’s fairly strong evidence that polygamy originates with Joseph Smith. But it’s also fairly clear to me that the type of polygamy practiced by Joseph was significantly different to the Utah style of polygamy.

    What’s also new to me was the potential influence of the Cocranites. There’s evidence of others being polygamous in Nauvoo. But it’s possible that Joseph wasn’t the source of all the polygamy. It seems some of the converts brought polygamy with them.

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