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The other day, while reflecting on experiences and insights gained as a result of having gone through a faith crisis, I was left with an interesting question. I know everyone here is in a different spot with regards to what they believe and that was part of my question. First I need to make one assumption, that there is an afterlife.
For those of you that do not believe the BoM is a historical account written by ancient people what do you think an ultra-orthodox member will go through on the other side of the veil? How hard will it be for them to accept the facts should they attempt to track down Captain Moroni to tell him how awesome they think he is just to find out he was fiction, a fairy tale? I guess the answer could be that it doesn’t matter by that point, but I still think it would be something that needed to be worked through. A 12 step afterlife program to explain the true purpose of the BoM and how it was misconstrued by the world for example. Mormons are in the vast minority after all so perhaps the spirit world is nothing more than a place to be deprogrammed of world culture.
In some ways I’m grateful for having passed through a faith crisis if nothing more than to make things like that much easier to process should the day come.
It goes in the other direction as well. For those of you that do not believe the BoM is a historical account written by ancient people how might you react in the presence of Nephi on the other side of the veil? That might be an easier transition. An oh, okay. Still by the time you feel that way about the BoM I think the notion of “going back” seems impossible.
For the first group (the believers who find out it is all hokus), there will be attempts at cognitive dissonance reduction. Some will continue believing through rationalization. Just look at how people have reacted to the priesthood disavowal. They just dismissed it. Depending on how big the disparity is between the reality of the afterlife, and the Mormon version, you may find a lot of people find a way to dismiss the discrepancy. I also wonder if the next life will confirm the eternal nature of the soul, but continue the lack of strong knowledge about what is REALLY required for salvation. So, people may find themself continuing to live by faith.
For the people like me, who don’t believe it like they used to, and find out it is true, it will be difficult. All the accountability shared with us in this life will be ours if it is as true as the church says it is. That may be hard to take. However, I do intend to ask God why he didn’t make it clearer, why prophets were allowed to lead people astray (such as with the Priesthood Disavowal) and why there wasn’t greater support for me personally when the behavior of church leaders make Mormonism very difficult to believe. I had already shown thrown my behavior, my tithing, and my commitment that I believed — why was there no “miracle” or support to convince me to keep believing and serving when I really needed it????
I don’t consider the Book of Mormon as history in the traditional sense but I wouldn’t be surprised to run into Nephi (assuming I am where HE is) in the next life. He and the other names from the Book of Mormon have been treated as and discussed as historical figures for most of my life that I have just accepted as true their existence. That said, I don’t know that I would be completely disillusioned by discovering that he didn’t exist. Even though he (and others) have been such a big part of my upbringing, they seem like distant fuzzy almost mythological figures. To find that this is what they are would not necessarily throw me for a loop. It’s an interesting question. I think our minds will not be limited by the constraints they have now and we won’t care about the things we care about now – except for people. I think there will be much more illumination and not so much disillusionment. There is a similarity in the two, but there is an important difference in focus. I think we will be so happy to see what he never imagined that we won’t have time or inclination for negativity – and I think that applies to almost everyone, not just a select few.
Interesting thought and fun to ponder when you don’t have anything else fun to ponder. Assuming there is an afterlife (and I believe there is), I think all of us are in for a surprise, whether your TBM or inactive, active in any other religion/church, or atheist. Really, most of what we “know” about the hereafter is nothing more than conjecture and speculation – a lot like the rest of what what we “know” here. Assuming that Mormonism is correct then there will still be major adjustments to me made by the faithful in the afterlife. 1st is that there are major parts of scripture and revelations that were locked away or yet to be revealed.
2nd is that I imagine if we sat down with Abraham, Paul, Brigham Young, and TSM – there would be some disagreements about how the gospel should be implemented. Even if we assume that the gospel becomes more perfect with time and therefore our version of the gospel is more correct than those that came before – that still puts us in a position of holding to certain elements now as gospel truths only to have those ideas changed by later generations as they further refine and perfect the gospel.
IF “heaven” is the home of all the faithful from all dispensations and IF there is one set of universal truths that will apply to everyone in that glorious state, THEN I imagine that all of us will we find contradictions between that new perfect truth and what we believed in our mortal state.
I assume the next life will be a new chapter. I turn the page and move forward. I take what I have learned so far, and move forward to apply it or learn new things and discard it. I don’t go back to try to make sense of my days in high school and prove if they were teaching me correct US history or if their textbooks were flawed. It’s not worth it. It won’t matter.
I move forward with a new context, a new chapter, and keep progressing.
My father passed away of cancer. Many of my family members believe he is now doing missionary work. I wonder sometimes what is doing. But I’m not in a hurry to find that out right now. Whatever it is, it is.
I’m in this chapter. I need thoughts and lessons that help me to love my wife, my kids, and those around me now. The Book of Mormon parables help me.
For me, in the second scenario I might be like”Whoa, Nephi, was I ever wrong about you!” and let it go – I’ve been known to be wrong. Were I the other scenario I honestly think I would have had a much harder time because of what I “knew.” We’re probably all wrong together about most of it anyway. Heber13 wrote:I assume the next life will be a new chapter. I turn the page and move forward. I take what I have learned so far, and move forward to apply it or learn new things and discard it.
I don’t go back to try to make sense of my days in high school and prove if they were teaching me correct US history or if their textbooks were flawed. It’s not worth it. It won’t matter.
I move forward with a new context, a new chapter, and keep progressing.
My father passed away of cancer. Many of my family members believe he is now doing missionary work. I wonder sometimes what is doing. But I’m not in a hurry to find that out right now. Whatever it is, it is.
I’m in this chapter. I need thoughts and lessons that help me to love my wife, my kids, and those around me now. The Book of Mormon parables help me.
Heber I completely agree. I think we learn from this life & move on & learn more in the next.
I see Mormon historical figures and LDS leaders as just people. I do not expect them to be up on a special podium in the hereafter with Mother Teresa, Moses, Mary, Martha, Miriam, and Christ. If the LDS view is correct, I will have an after life and will chained for Eternity with some family members that I don’t enjoy. It will be HELLISH no matter what level of glory I end up in. If the LDS view is not correct, and there is a hereafter, I will get to spend time with people I love.
There are three options: 1. The Book of Mormon is 100% true. There really was a Nephi, Lehi, Captian Moroni, etc. The events that took place in the Book of Mormon are 100% accurate.
2. The Book of Mormon is partially true. Those who wrote in the Book of Mormon were still allowed to color their writings with bias, and sometimes had misinformation. When revealing to Joseph Smith the translation of the Book of Mormon, God allowed misinformation to get through uncorrected.
3. The Book of Mormon is historical fiction. It takes scriptures from the bible, and combines them with stories of a fictional people in order to convey by allegory the keys to happy living.
In any case, the Book of Mormon was used to increase other’s faith in Jesus Christ, provide novelty to the ancient teachings of Judeo-Christianity, solidify Joseph Smith’s reputation as a prophet, increase his power and authority amongst men. The real difference is whether this was God’s intent in revealing the Book of Mormon to Joseph Smith, or Joseph Smith’s in coming up with the Book of Mormon.
What is certain to all of us, is that Jesus Christ set up a church, but that mankind changed that church. Beliving in something religiously, even if it isn’t true, is a very strong motivator. Beliving in a prophet, that speaks for God with absolute truth and authority, is a strong motivator for making many positive decisions which can bring peace and happiness. Trusting in the absolute wisdom of another, if it is good wisdom, will bring about positive change.
“In truth, there never was any remarkable lawgiver amongst any
people who did not resort to divine authority, as otherwise his laws
would not have been accepted by the people; for there are many good
laws, the importance of which is known to be the sagacious lawgiver,
but the reasons for which are not sufficiently evident to enable him to
persuade others to submit to them; and therefore do wise men, for the
purpose of removing this difficulty, resort to divine authority.”
— Niccolo Machiavelli
dande48 wrote:What is certain to all of us, is that Jesus Christ set up a church, but that mankind changed that church.I agree with all that you said except the above portion. I do not believe Jesus did organize a church, and there actually is little if any New Testament evidence of such. There is more evidence that the Apostles instituted some organization, probably because it was the only way they could govern the growing movement in diverse geographic locations and among diverse cultures. I think Joseph Smith tried to organize a church that he perceived matched the one in NT times, but that he didn’t have access to any more information than we do (probably less), that organization was not perfect itself, and that organization was put together by men doing the best they could based on what they knew.
Fwiw, I believe Mormon theology says we won’t be chained to anyone – and only sealed to those whose character was such that sealing is a blessing – and, by sealed, I mean live in the same general condition but with different lives – much like people to whom we attach ourselves in this life. Mormon theology is fascinating and, as has been said, trying to state what it is in one all-encompassing way is like nailing Jello to a wall. Many members don’t want to accept that, but, based on how differently even apostles have described and defined it, I’d say that description is accurate.
Frankly, I love that – since it allows me to see it however makes the most sense to me.
What if… whatever principle of knowledge or intelligence or faith that we obtain in this life travels with us to the next. So, if we have faith and expect to meet Captain Moroni, we meet Captain Moroni. If we believe he was fiction, he’s not there. If we believe we’ll get to hang out with all our pets who died, we got em, if we want to see Auntie Em but not Uncle Jo, it happens and in effect this becomes our heaven, which might be different from others’ heaven. Parallel universes… cubed.
Cnsl1 wrote:it happens and in effect this becomes our heaven, which might be different from others’ heaven.
I think this makes a lot of sense, although hard to imagine.
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