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It’s funny, before going to the temple I remember people saying that it is all symbolic. When I walked out of there the first time, I didn’t really know what to think. It was a positive experience for me, but I guess I didn’t know what was meant to be symbolic and what was meant to be literal. Despite the disclaimer that the endowment is largely allegorical I know a lot of it is accepted as literal. For example, there are people who really believe that tokens will physically be given to angels that stand as senitels. I always thought this was an odd belief and didn’t see any value in it. It never made sense to me that Peter James and John could have physically given tokens and signs to Adam and Eve, considering they didn’t have physical bodies yet. Only recently have I begun to look at it as a poetic expression, with the celestial room being the sanctuary of our mind/soul and guarding the veil of our mind from self defeating thoughts and attitudes with the same vigilance that Angels of God would guard heaven, only allowing in that which has committed to consecration.
Suffice it to say, the temple has become one of my favorite parts of the church. And although I don’t believe as I once did, and have as many qualms about certain things as anybody else, I really love the church, and no matter what I do, mormonism is in my heritage, it is a part of me, even though it’s not everything I learned in seminary, I’m okay with that, I’m a Momron (and that’s exactly what I would say in my video for the I’m a Mormon campaign).
I have come to see the endowment, and all the ordinances, not as requirements for a future exaltation, but as a powerful metaphor for growth, and even enlightenment. It is interesting to imagine each personality in the presentation as being just another phase of me, within myself. So, at this point, as I piece together my faith, I am not currently paying tithing (to the church). It’s not to say that I never will, I just don’t feel like I would be doing it with a pure heart, like I did before. So I am missing the temple, and I would like to go. But I guess now is not the time, if ever.
I know they said it was all symbolic, but nobody every told me it was ALL symbolic.
For me, the value of the temple was in getting to the celestial room. Where it is peaceful. But then I had some negative experiences. Once in the Bishopric, I walked into the celestial room and spoke to a Ward member. My apron fell, still tied up, around my ankles and everyone laughed (due to my girth at that time). I was embarrassed. Another time it was so peaceful I fell asleep, was woken up by a temple worker and was asked to leave. I have concluded that I can get the same or better effect of the peace and beauty of the celestial room with a room in my house that is sparsely decorated, absent from technology, and peaceful. I even envisioned an outbuilding where I can go and simply read and think and meditate. That would be just as good for my spirituality, I think.
I never thought of your symbolism above. I think its interesting. I always thought of the signs and tokens as literal. In today’s internet world they don’t have the same punch as anyone can learn them, I think. So, there’s a case for the symbolism of these components of the temple ceremony rather than for their practicality.
I don’t know that there is a case to be made, symbolism only has the meaning we give it, consider the swastica. I doubt the meaning I’ve given certain parts of the endowment was the intended meaning by whoever created it, that would be interesting if it were, though it doesn’t really matter to me. That is an excellent point of seeking the same peace you felt in the celestial room in your own home. I think resting in a special place with a special ambiance is a good practice for quieting the mind and connecting with the divine, whatever that means. Certainly the idea must be to carry it with you always, wherever you go, like the sacrament prayer.
” Wherefore, if they shall say unto you: Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: Behold,
he is in the secret chambers; believe it not;” Matt 1:25 “Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold,
the kingdom of God is within you.” Luke 17:21 SilentDawning wrote:I always thought of the signs and tokens as literal. In today’s internet world they don’t have the same punch as anyone can learn them, I think. So, there’s a case for the symbolism of these components of the temple ceremony rather than for their practicality.
To explain this in the past I convinced myself that learning about the temple on the internet vs. actually attending the temple was similar to:
John 10:16 wrote:Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
Meaning you might have knowledge of things that allow you past sentinels but it doesn’t matter unless you
receivedthe knowledge in a very specific way. Of course this is the more literal interpretation but I think it still holds true in some ways. You can’t gain true knowledge and experience in life simply by being told something, you have to live life and gain experiences for yourself. People may arrive in the same physical location but their paths may be very, very different. Life is a journey, not a destination. I haven’t done an endowment in a very long time. I really couldn’t venture a guess as to what symbols the tokens themselves could actually hold. I guess I’d have to go back to see it, because right now the only thing I see in them (as they apply to real-world lessons) is the ability to keep a secret??? Hold something sacred???
nibbler wrote:I haven’t done an endowment in a very long time. I really couldn’t venture a guess as to what symbols the tokens themselves could actually hold. I guess I’d have to go back to see it, because right now the only thing I see in them (as they apply to real-world lessons) is the ability to keep a secret??? Hold something sacred???
I think you’re probably right, as far as it’s intended purpose.
Quote:Confidentiality
The LDS temple ceremony was (and is) considered to be sacred. As such, it was not to be exposed to the view or discussion of outsiders.
Joseph Smith was of the view that some of the Saints were not good at keeping religious confidences:
The reason we do not have the secrets of the Lord revealed unto us, is because we do not keep them but reveal them; we do not keep our own secrets, but reveal our difficulties to the world, even to our enemies, then how would we keep the secrets of the Lord? I can keep a secret till Doomsday.[3]
A few of the early leaders of the Church pointed out that one of the aims of Masonry was to teach adherents proper respect for promises of confidentiality.[4] For instance,
Joseph Smith: “The secret of Masonry is to keep a secret.”[5]
Brigham Young: “The main part of Masonry is to keep a secret.”[6]
This institutionalized Masonic principle was a trait that would be necessary for the Saints to incorporate into their lives once they were endowed, because certain elements of the temple ritual were considered to be very sacred and were not to be divulged to the uninitiated. This may be the key for understanding why the Prophet encouraged so many of the Nauvoo-era Saints to join the Masonic brotherhood.
http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_temples/Endowment/Freemasonry ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_temples/Endowment/Freemasonry nibbler wrote:You can’t gain true knowledge and experience in life simply by being told something, you have to live life and gain experiences for yourself. People may arrive in the same physical location but their paths may be very, very different. Life is a journey, not a destination.
I REALLY like this interpretation/connection as well, thank you.
The symbolic meaning of the tokens and the garment marks are quite powerful for those who understand them. Not so much or at all for those who don’t. I wish the meanings were taught openly in temple prep classes. It can be done without crossing any lines. Unknown wrote:Only recently have I begun to look at it as a poetic expression, with the celestial room being the sanctuary of our mind/soul and guarding the veil of our mind from self defeating thoughts and attitudes with the same vigilance that Angels of God would guard heaven, only allowing in that which has committed to consecration.
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I have come to see the endowment, and all the ordinances, not as requirements for a future exaltation, but as a powerful metaphor for growth, and even enlightenment. It is interesting to imagine each personality in the presentation as being just another phase of me, within myself.
I really like this view of the temple. I’m not sure I will ever grow past my deep skepticism for … well, everything. But I can understand the power of metaphor and how it might help make me a happier, more self-fulfilled person. Thanks for sharing these ideas.Curtis wrote:The symbolic meaning of the tokens and the garment marks are quite powerful for those who understand them. Not so much or at all for those who don’t. I wish the meanings were taught openly in temple prep classes. It can be done without crossing any lines.
Maybe you should teach us a temple prep class!
Curtis wrote:The symbolic meaning of the tokens and the garment marks are quite powerful for those who understand them. Not so much or at all for those who don’t. I wish the meanings were taught openly in temple prep classes. It can be done without crossing any lines.
Just what do they mean? What makes them powerful?
Curtis wrote:The symbolic meaning of the tokens and the garment marks are quite powerful for those who understand them. Not so much or at all for those who don’t. I wish the meanings were taught openly in temple prep classes. It can be done without crossing any lines.
I agree with this. Although I haven’t been to the temple in a long time, I used to go somewhat frequently (as time allowed, the temple is some distance from here), and I was even a veil worker for awhile. I could never remember what the garment marks mean. Seriously, I just don’t get it. On the other hand, I like the temple and I especially like doing initiatory work. There’s a ton of symbolism there, it’s repeated over and over in a short amount of time, and all you really have to do is listen and/or ponder, there’s no dressing and switching and whatever. Mind you, I am of the same mindset as Curtis. If you pay attention to what you covenant not to discuss (reveal), it actually is a very small, specific part.
Curtis wrote:The symbolic meaning of the tokens and the garment marks are quite powerful for those who understand them. Not so much or at all for those who don’t. I wish the meanings were taught openly in temple prep classes. It can be done without crossing any lines.
This is a curious comment. Are you suggesting that there is an intended symbolic meaning to the tokens and marks that the general population of temple goers is missing out on? Why wouldn’t the average temple goer understand?
Being symbolic, any meaning is left to individual interpretation. I don’t recall any explanation of the symbolism of the tokens ever being given in the temple, or elsewhere. The explanation of the marks on the garment is very brief, really just the name of each mark followed by a single phrase. Anything beyond that seems to be left to the imagination/personal revelation.
If you have an interpretation of these symbols that has been useful in your faith and could offer a rich perspective, I’d love to hear it.
There is a previous thread with some of the answers. I will try to find it first. The following thread was posted almost exactly four years ago. It has some really good discussion of the symbols in the temple:
“
temple stuff” ( http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=146&hilit=compass I used to think that the tokens would literally be given as we walked down a corridor to heaven. That was also when I believed that we were “earning” heaven…paving the road with little works of kindness…building our literal mansion with small deeds, brick by brick.
I used to giggle when I thought of my anti-LDS friends who would NOT be allowed to pass the sentinels on their way to heaven and I envisioned myself waving to them as *I* passed into the pearly gates.
And then…my shelf crashed.
I haven’t been to the temple in a long time because I don’t like the confusion there.
Because I HATE veiling my face…its’ HOT under that fabric.
Because I walk away disappointed each time.
Because the celestial room (to me) is like a museum for the pure of heart. I feel like if I’m not engaged in mighty prayer and receiving divine revelation, I’m doing it wrong.
But…that’s just me.
One thing that MIGHT be helping my understanding of the tokens is this…
We homeschool our children and in teaching my younger ones how to read, we use silly and fun hand and body motions for each letter’s sound. The motions have nothing at all to do with reading, but the body movement helps my kids to remember what sound a certain letter makes. It’s all about remembering.
Perhaps the motions in the temple are done to help us remember what it is we are promising.
Perhaps the motions have nothing at all to do with whether or not we will “get into” heaven.
I’ve often thought that if I were to step out of the picture with my children learning their sounds and only left them with the motions and sounds, they would not know that the motions would soon fade away as their brains started putting logic into play. They would continue with motions when they read and they would not know why they were doing the motions. They would probably teach those same motions to their kids without a proper reason and the tradition would be passed on. Maybe that’s what happened with the temple motions. There was probably a reason for them in the beginning, but that reason wasn’t passed down and now that we are thinking for ourselves, we are confused.
And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins. (2 Nephi 25:26) They help me remember the Savior.
(Despite my feelings about the divinity of the Book of Mormon and Christ and the atonement, this is one of my favorite scriptures.)
There are various reasons why a quiet room wouldn’t work in my home: * I live at a transport hub – railroad, flight routes and freeway all pass near here. This is tolerable otherwise, but not in meditation.
* My neighbors make noise, especially their child.
* I like the idea of having to get away from here, and working for it.
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