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Hello, My husband and I have been married 10 years. We were both BIC, raised in the church. We both served missions, met at BYU, dated for 7 months, and married in the temple at age 23/24. We have lived in 5 wards and have both been very active the whole time — RS president and EQ pres at the same time, etc. Our 3 kids are ages 6, 3, and 7 months.
A couple of years ago my husband was hired in a tenure-track academic research job, which is very demanding. We have high hopes that it will be very family-friendly in a few years when he has tenure, but in order to earn it most professors work 60-80 hours a week. That would be intense for anyone, but especially if you take Sundays off, want to see your wife and kids, and are asked to spend every Wednesday night and every other weekend with the Young Men. After 2 years of trying to balance it all and feeling like he wasn’t succeeding at anything, the strain had taken its toll. DH started praying fervently for another confirmation that the Church is true. Finally the “spiritual” experience came, but the answer he “received” was that this is NOT the one and only true church. He continued analyzing times he “felt the Spirit” and concluded that it’s not a reliable source of truth.
Although I have had a small shelf of doubts for many years, my testimony of the Church was quite strong at this point and I didn’t take it well. DH felt that this exposed/exacerbated some other latent problems in our marriage — he questioned whether I had ever been attracted to him, or if I just wanted to marry a priesthood holder in the temple. I knew I needed time to sort things out, but I definitely mourned what I felt was the loss of my perfect eternal family, my lifelong dream. Then came Christmas. Although we had planned to travel to my parents’ house together, he decided to stay home and work (and avoid my brother’s temple wedding and my ultra TBM family). Unfortunately we had a terrible time communicating for 3 weeks due to cell phone, internet, and time zone problems, and our marriage crisis got even worse. I seriously wondered if I should consider ending it. Fortunately we were able to begin working through some things after I got back — he is willing to continue attending church with me and the kids, and probably baptized the kids. We had some disagreement over how he would follow some other Mormon practices, such as wearing garments, because I wanted to hide his unbelief from the kids until they were older. Unfortunately our communication was interrupted again after one week together; he had to leave for a week-long trip to a conference in Africa.
He will get home tomorrow, and while he has been gone I have begun to realize that the doctrine of temple marriage and eternal families is not as warm and fuzzy as I once thought. If I am faithful and my husband is not, I will not be denied any blessing in the hereafter . . . By being sealed to someone else??! What kind of a blessing is that?! Before DH changed, I loved the blessings promised in the temple to sisters, and had no problem with promising to obey him. Now I am kind of struggling with the whole inequality of men and women in the gospel and in the family. Not that I want the priesthood, or that I want the stress of providing for a spouse and pile of kids. I just regret that I haven’t developed my talents as I could have because I thought that to be a good Mormon, I should just be a stay at home mom. I feel like I don’t know who I am anymore, if I’m not headed to exaltation with my husband.
I first came to this site and NOM looking for support, at DH’s recommendation, but now I’m afraid I am much more mindful of other problems with the church. Many of them I already knew about, but I was choosing faith because I loved my perfect-family life. Now that that’s gone . . . is still enough good in the Church to stay? Is there another Church out there that we would be more comfortable with? If I change my involvement, I’ll take it slow — I’ll still go visiting teaching this week and probably teach Sharing Time in Primary next month. I do feel peace, however, about giving up some of the notions in the Proclamation on the Family (I never ever thought I would say that). I have high hopes that my sweet hubby and I will be able to work out a plan going forward that we’re happy about and our marriage will be saved. I just don’t know yet what that will be.
I would like to hear what you all do with your young children. Do you take them to church and allow them to be indoctrinated? Are you honest and open with them about what you believe? If not, is it confusing for them to find out later that you were just pretending to have a testimony? I imagine there are other threads on this topic — would you please help me by linking them?
Thanks for reading!
Hi Momof3, welcome! You will find many listening ears here, and hearts that can relate. Momof3 wrote:I have high hopes that my sweet hubby and I will be able to work out a plan going forward that we’re happy about and our marriage will be saved. I just don’t know yet what that will be.
I would like to hear what you all do with your young children. Do you take them to church and allow them to be indoctrinated? Are you honest and open with them about what you believe? If not, is it confusing for them to find out later that you were just pretending to have a testimony?
High hopes are a very good thing, staying positive is most of the battle.
I do allow my children to be taught in church without much fear that they are being led in the wrong direction. I will be honest with them while at the same time not pushing my personal views on them, I think everyone needs to learn for themselves and let their worldview take shape as it will. My biggest goal as my children grow is to help them see that there are many different ideas alive and well among church members. I don’t fear they will later find out I was pretending, because in my mind I am sincere – even though my personal views may vary greatly from the norm on some topics.
I look forward to hearing more from you.
Momof3 wrote:He will get home tomorrow, and while he has been gone I have begun to realize that the doctrine of temple marriage and eternal families is not as warm and fuzzy as I once thought. If I am faithful and my husband is not, I will not be denied any blessing in the hereafter . . . By being sealed to someone else??! What kind of a blessing is that?!
Hi, Momof3 – When you start examining, things can unravel pretty quickly. I like this site because there are cooler and more learned heads than mine. Re. the temple, I take so much of it with a giant grain of salt anymore. I don’t like to think too hard just yet about the implications of my new take on it.
I hope you and your husband can work through all this. Glad you’re here.
Welcome Momof3. I’m glad you’re here and I hope you can find advice that is useful to you and I hope you can find the peace you seek. I hope I’m not being too forward in pointing out the major stressors in your husband’s life that are contributing to the situation: his job and his calling. Neither of them is more important than you and your family and both of them have to give a bit. YMP is the busiest calling in the church – the president attends all meetings the bishop does except bishopric, plus the evenings and weekends. Bishops who are not self absorbed realize this. I loved my time as counselor and YMP, but not to the extent I would let it affect my family. A talk with the bishop and with his boss are both in order.
Like almost everybody here, you have some doubts and so does he. Spend some time concentrating on what you do believe and build from there. I am a little limited on time, but there are a couple good discussions about the temple going on right now. If I have time later I will try to come back and link them. Many of us have come to the conclusion that there isn’t something better as far as a church goes. That doesn’t mean we believe this to be the “only true church” nor does it indicate all the others are completely wrong. In your case, there’s also the cultural aspect. Some people here stay mostly because of the culture.
My wife is TBM, while I am inactive and I haven’t been to church in over 10 years. My children have always gone to church with her. They know I have doubts and they know what some of them are (prayer, for instance). I don’t try to influence their thinking, but I also gently point out inaccuracies when the opportunity presents itself. They know I do have a testimony – of God and Jesus Christ, not of white shirts and the three hour block. Two of my children are grown, one a graduate of college with doubts of her own and the other on a mission (who understands the gospel is central to our belief and that one doesn’t have to believe in polygamy to be a member). Like everyone else, they find their own way, so I haven’t worried abut the indoctrination. My kids are smart, and as you discovered, when we really start to look at some things we understand how ridiculous they are.
Thank you so much, Orson, Ann, and DarkJedi. I am very happy to have found you. I did find Joni’s thread about being a woman in the temple, and it is quite helpful. Welcome momof3. It’s always refershing to hear from another one of “us”. At the same time, I’m sorry that you are going through this, because I know it is tough and I think most here understand and can hear the uncertainty about the future when you tell your story. Just know that you have kindred spirits here. This site is very diverse in what people believe, but a definite flavor here is that people are trying to find the right balance, both in faith and involvement in the Church. A couple of things I want to talk briefly about:
– You mentioned your prior acceptance that you should “just be a stay at home mom”. Of course, you don’t have to be a stay at home mom. If there is something in life that you want, go get it. But I also believe that there is nothing “just” about being a stay at home parent (in your case, ‘mom’). I know plenty of people who are not LDS, who live that lifestyle, with one parent working outside the home and one parent working at home. It is a big financial sacrifice, but I find that these people are generally glad they made that decision. In LDS culture, it is the baseline default, and that causes problems, but as a conscious decision that people make for themselves and their family (not for the Church) it is perfectly valid. It can be both difficult and rewarding.
– From your description, I get the sense that it is more than just the Church that is the issue in your relationship. I suggest setting the Church/faith issue to the side and concentrating on your family for a while. Don’t let the Church be a scapegoat for marital troubles. I know a couple that decided the Church wasn’t true, and even though they were completely united in this, they were soon divorced. Conversely, there are many here who have a come to a different faith than their spouse, and they are able to stay together and support each other. Many times, this strengthens marriages, IMO. LDS culture has a strong tendency to make us believe that the Church is the glue that holds us together, but that isn’t the case. The bonds of marriage and love and common goals and family… these are the immutable forces that make a truly great partnership flourish. I would suggest that you work on those things. Your husband’s career is what I would worry about. Sometimes, people will let everything around them crumble while they hold tighter and tighter to their job, because it is a sort of safe zone that they can control. But, that doesn’t mean that it is his fault. He’s just trying to do what is right. But the two of you need to find a way to be at peace with it together… It’s not HIS job alone… it is the career that supports the entire family. It’s helpful to find ways to own it together. Based on the things you’ve said, I would suggest talking about getting in touch with a counselor. The one and only way to approach a topic like that is with a desire to help “US” to work through these tough times. It will be a horrible failure if you think the purpose of a counselor is fix HIM, or if he thinks it is to fix YOU. It has to be about US, WE and OUR.
Momof3 – your comments remind me of Betty Friedan’s The Feminist Mystique. She posits that any woman who has lived the SAHM 1950s ideal, adopting the identity of her children or husband rather than creating her own, is headed for an identity crisis by her 40s when the kids start growing up. I see this as a serious problem for women within the church, many of whom chose to be a SAHM for all the wrong reasons. As to your marital difficulties, I agree with the advice not to conflate the church stuff with the marriage stuff, and of course the marriage stuff is what’s most important. I don’t think we can fathom the celestial, period, but too often it’s an excuse to take our eye of the ball of the present life before us, the one we are actually living, the marriage we have to invest in today.
Hi momof3. Thanks for sharing your story. In trying to answer your questions/offer a personal perspective I’m aware that every family is different.
I can share mine, but they might not be the best option for you and your family.
First, the best advice I ever got from this website is: Take.Your.Time.
1.5 to 2 years ago I got into the process of studying church doctrine/origins etc and nearly left the church in a matter of weeks. I’m glad I took a little longer to consider it. It’s a huge life decision that has significant consequences. Whether you choose to stay or go, you need to be able to look back in years to come with the knowledge that you took enough time to properly consider all the implications.
You asked about being the sole parent at church. I’m currently doing that. My wife stopped attending 3+ years ago. I’ve respected her motives for doing so and she has respected my desire to continue taking the kids, even after my transitioned faith.
Are there better churches out there? Maybe. I’m happy with the one I have. I’ve lost any certainty that it is the “only true church,” but I’m comfortable worshiping with a group of people who believe it to be.
I would suggest that for both you and your husband your biggest priority is family and your relationship. Take the time on that too. I hope you find a peace-inducing resolution, whatever it might be.
Momof3 wrote:Fortunately we were able to begin working through some things after I got back — he is willing to continue attending church with me and the kids, and probably baptized the kids. We had some disagreement over how he would follow some other Mormon practices, such as wearing garments, because I wanted to hide his unbelief from the kids until they were older.
My wife and I have been talking about this kind of thing for a while now. Right now I consider myself agnostic, while she is a true believer. She wanted me to baptize our son who just turned eight, but I didn’t feel comfortable with it. Then I found this site and realized that there is a way to navigate the muddy middle waters. So far this is what we’ve decided together: I will continue attending church and helping with the kids as much as I can. The kids will be doing all the normal churchy stuff that Mormon kids do, and yes they will be “indoctrinated” with many ideas in that process. We still read scriptures and have family prayer every day (I even take my turn, but I’m careful about what I say and how I say it in my prayers). The way I see it, I was really happy as a kid growing up in the church, and so was my wife. She is still very happy in the church herself, and I don’t see any use in trying to soil any of that. Our marriage is the most important thing, and our happiness as a family is paramount. I can go along with a lot of things I don’t believe or necessarily agree with in pursuit of that goal.On a personal level, I will be very careful about what I personally teach my kids. For now, they are young (ages 8, 6, 5, 2, and almost 1), and many of the literal teachings of the church are what make the most sense to them. As they get older, I will be able to start nudging them into more thoughtful and nuanced views—or at least to open the possibilities to them, if they want to pursue them. I can also teach strong values as a family that will support a less literal and more open faith for them—things like the Golden Rule and how it’s used in many other religions, the importance of free agency, the importance of thinking for one’s self, the idea that church leaders can make mistakes while still being good people, the idea of symbolism, and the high importance of supporting, loving, and accepting each other as family members no matter what. Teaching kids about some of the rocky areas of church history while younger is also on the agenda (from what I’ve seen that makes for stronger foundations and less chance of horrifying and faith-shattering feelings of betrayal later on). For now I will not be telling them anything about my personal doubts or my beliefs that might contradict the church. I don’t think they are old enough to understand the full importance of what that might mean. And I think that to give them a real chance at faith, it needs to be taught pretty strongly in the home while they are young. When they get older, maybe in their teenage years, and only as they seem ready and/or desirous to hear such things, I feel that I will be able to tell them that I don’t know everything, that I’m not sure we can know, but that faith is a valid choice and I will support them no matter what. That’s the idea, anyway. My ideas are still forming and changing all the time.
I hope that helps. I’ve found that one of the best things about this site is the wide range of views. Just hearing all the diversity helps me focus in on what feels right to me and what doesn’t, and it opens me up to ideas and solutions I would never have thought of otherwise. You’re definitely not alone in your troubles, and I believe there will be a way forward for you. I hope we can help you find it.
Edit: About wearing garments, most kids have no idea what the significance of garments is unless it’s been specifically pointed out to them. I haven’t worn garments for years, while my wife has always worn hers. My kids have never noticed or cared what kind of underwear we wear. So it might not be as big of an issue as you fear.
Welcome! Momof3 wrote:He will get home tomorrow, and while he has been gone I have begun to realize that the doctrine of temple marriage and eternal families is not as warm and fuzzy as I once thought. If I am faithful and my husband is not, I will not be denied any blessing in the hereafter . . . By being sealed to someone else??! What kind of a blessing is that?!
One of the few times in recent memory that I spoke out in a church class forcefully was to speak against the concept that if one spouse doesn’t measure up then they will be replaced with someone that does. The concept of being traded in really depersonalized my relationship with DW and I had a visceral reaction to it. I am NOT interchangeable!
Momof3 wrote:I would like to hear what you all do with your young children. Do you take them to church and allow them to be indoctrinated? Are you honest and open with them about what you believe? If not, is it confusing for them to find out later that you were just pretending to have a testimony?
We participate in a handful of different churches. DW has worried that being exposed to different perspectives will “confuse” our kids. I believe that on the contrary – seeing that everything is not universally agreed upon is probably a really useful life skill. One small example is that my eight year old knows that our family does not drink coffee but she also sees her activity leader from another church drinking it and this has opened the discussion between us on the value of differences and personal choices.
It sounds like this is still going very fast for you. I might recommend taking 6 months to a year to digest your new feelings. My own journey has been a long walk of examining doctrines one by one to see how they might fit into my life going forward. For a time we didn’t go to the LDS church. More recently, I have gone for a year with only attending SM and not having a calling. I now co-teach the 4 year olds with DW and I love it. Along the way, I have removed the church as intermediary between myself and God. The church is a model and has it’s uses as well as its limitations – but it is not my Father or Mother and cannot speak for Them.
Good luck and welcome!
Welcome. I won’t add to the excellent input others have given, but I do want to tell you thanks for your introduction. I think we can help you, and I hope you can help us, as well.
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