Home Page Forums Introductions Putting It All Back Together

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #208444
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hello! I used to post on this forum about a year and a half ago. I’m a U of U student and I study physics. I had a crisis of faith at the end of 2011, and I wanted to reconstruct my faith so I could stay in the Church, so I joined the discussion here. But after awhile it became apparent that I needed to completely tear all my beliefs apart, which included exploring all the criticisms of the Church. I posted a lot on NOM, and that turned out to be really good for me. I was able to examine all my assumptions about the world. I became an atheist for awhile. But now I’m satisfied that I’ve torn all my beliefs completely apart, and the world of atheism has become flat and kinda boring. I’m feeling a reawakening and a new interest in the great myths and stories. I don’t really feel the need to criticize the Church anymore in a “true/false” context. I’m more interested in discussions about reconstructed, nonliteral, metaphorical faith. I started attending church again, and it was fun to see it with new eyes. For me, it’s now more about what the myths and stories tell us about what it means to be human. I’m hoping I made it all the way through Fowler’s Stage 4, because that was a tough experience.

    So hello again, and I’m excited to have some discussions about metaphorical belief and other post-Stage 4 experiences.

    #279900
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Welcome back. I am also in the process of rebuilding my faith and agree that looking at things from the new perspective does bring in a whole new dimension. I look forward to hearing from you.

    #279901
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Welcome back. I have found I can survive without making everything metaphorical. Instead, I simply look at the different practices and behavior and culture and ask “What do I really believe about the importance of these practices?”.

    So, the tearing apart and reassembly focuses on practices, not on theology really. Church teachings factor into the reconstruction, but not nearly to the extent I think leaders and the church expect them to.

    I find life is WAY easier now. I frankly don’t care about much of the theological aspects of our faith. I’m a Mormon now, and my family is all active, so for me, it’s about interacting with the church and its culture on my own terms — in a way that preserves my inner peace (Happiness is the object and design of our existence isn’t it?). For me, its not about a search for theological truth.

    I have decided the theological truth is a huge unknown. I’m not convinced anyone can know for sure what is true, and what is not. And I have had the powerful spiritual experiences as well in the church — it is not as if I am aspiritual.

    I suppose the reconstruction centers on things i can control. And I can control my behavior and the extent to which I let Church practices disturb my inner peace.

    So, tearing apart has meant assessing:

    a) Just how important is it to a pay a tithe ONLY to the church?

    b) To what extent should my behavior be influenced by the statements of local and international church leaders?

    c) What level of sacrifice should I expect from myself as I serve in the church (if I should serve at all).

    d) What form should service to others take, and does it have to be in the church to be truly important and meaningful in the eyes of God?

    e) What is the relative importance of my own needs for growth versus the needs of the organizational church, in terms of service?

    f) What are the practical reasons for the various habits of our religion, and are these practical reasons defensible?

    Out has come a philosophy that I can live with. It is unorthodox, and it means I have to keep my mouth shut at church. It means I serve in the community and not in the church right now. It means I listen to church leaders but elevate my conscience over their statements. Their comments influence my thinking, but they do not eclipse it. I could go on, but I have to confess, except when I’m at church, I feel very good about where I’m putting my time right now. At church I feel like an outsider, but I cope by using the time to read during priesthood meeting (there is a beautiful park just outside the church), use the travel back and forth to strengthen family, and consider it a couple hours of sacrifice to keep my wife happy because I love her.

    #279902
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Based on your desire to explore the myths again, have you read The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyes? Really worth picking up if you have not.

    #279903
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I completely relate. Before starting here over 5 years ago I had a desire to understand a “non-literal” … “belief?” I second the book recommendation by Hawk. Today I can see that my understanding/belief has evolved and today I would not characterize my belief as non-literal. I don’t know exactly how to define it – I certainly don’t take some things to be literal, but I understand the real meaning isn’t and probably was never supposed to be propped up on such a fallible human understanding of “literal.” Therefore there is no need to shoot down the “error.” Maybe I believe it serves a purpose — I am trying to figure this out but maybe the symbol that is taken the wrong way is still useful and should stand to let people progress in their understanding of it.

    #279904
    Anonymous
    Guest

    InquiringMind wrote:

    the world of atheism has become flat and kinda boring

    Amen, Brother.

    Welcome back… I loved your reintroduction. I look forward to hearing your perspective.

    #279905
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Welcome back!

    We need to hear these stories occasionally in order to remember / understand that positive faith reconstruction can occur and allow people to remain happy and active in the LDS Church – and that it is a good thing in the end. Too often, people in your type of situation simply stop participating here (and that is a wonderful thing, in many ways – that we no longer are needed), but not hearing about their “successes” can lead others to not understand that such successes occur.

    I look forward to your contributions again.

    #279906
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi, welcome back.

    I can relate to tearing it all down and starting again. I like being able to sort through the LDS ‘bricks’ and say ‘I like that, I don’t like that.’

    #279907
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I agree with Ray, it is so good to hear “success” stories. I desire to be able to do that. Thanks so much for coming and posting and for the light of hope that your post brought to me.

    Hawkgirl, thanks so much for the book recommendation. I looked it up on Audible.com and it has 516 five star reviews. It sounds like something that I have been wanting to read but didn’t know where to find it. Thanks so much!

    #279908
    Anonymous
    Guest

    InquiringMind wrote:

    I started attending church again, and it was fun to see it with new eyes.

    Hi, InquiringMind – I’m glad you’re back. I would love to hear more about actual church. Going back now, what about it strikes you as important, beautiful, etc.? Have you gone back to the very same ward and people? How open are you with your thoughts? Stuff like that….. But only if you feel inclined.

    #279909
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Ann wrote:

    InquiringMind wrote:

    I started attending church again, and it was fun to see it with new eyes.

    Hi, InquiringMind – I’m glad you’re back. I would love to hear more about actual church. Going back now, what about it strikes you as important, beautiful, etc.? Have you gone back to the very same ward and people? How open are you with your thoughts? Stuff like that….. But only if you feel inclined.

    As someone who has been hedging for a long time on going back, I’d really like to hear what you are comfortable sharing as well.

    #279910
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Religion is everywhere in human society because it works. It fills some of our very human needs. We might be able to glean those benefits by participating without believing. I’m trying to figure out how to do that. Thanks for everyone’s insights.

    #279911
    Anonymous
    Guest

    DarkJedi wrote:

    Ann wrote:

    InquiringMind wrote:

    I started attending church again, and it was fun to see it with new eyes.

    Hi, InquiringMind – I’m glad you’re back. I would love to hear more about actual church. Going back now, what about it strikes you as important, beautiful, etc.? Have you gone back to the very same ward and people? How open are you with your thoughts? Stuff like that….. But only if you feel inclined.

    As someone who has been hedging for a long time on going back, I’d really like to hear what you are comfortable sharing as well.


    So far it’s been more of the experience of a disinterested 3rd party observer combined with a sympathy for the human condition. Instead of being obsessed with whether the Church is true or false, I’ve started to see church as a place where people go to respond to a call from within and to talk about ways to make sense of the world and of their experiences. Religion evolved as a way of making sense of the world and explaining the unexplainable, among other things. It’s interesting to listen to people try to make sense of their experiences and and to try to weave meaning into the tapestry of their lives.

    The biggest relief has been to give up the either/or, true/false dichotomies. Both TBMs and people in the midst of crises of faith get all wrapped up in the true/false preoccupation, and that’s normal. At some point I became satisfied that I most likely had some of the answers and became satisfied that no one knows some of the answers, i.e., no one really knows what happens after we die.

    And so rather than come from a place of condemnation of TBMs for being unable to “see,” I see their belief structure as normal because they’re at a normal place in the stages of belief. Stage 3 faith is normal, and we were there once.

    I haven’t spoken up with my metaphorical beliefs. In EQ this last Sunday, the Bill Nye/Ken Ham debate came up, and the guys seemed to sympathize with Bill Nye’s openness, and they condemned Ken Ham’s Biblical literalism and closed disposition. I was pleased with that. Someone said that “Extreme orthodoxy is caused not by faith, but by doubt. It is when we are not sure that we are doubly sure.” I was pretty happy to see such openness among TBMs.

    I’ve accepted religion and myth as normal parts of the human condition. For the most part I don’t think that they’re literally true, but they’re important, they evolved for good reasons, and they teach us about ourselves.

    So now, instead of seeing things as “either/or,” I often see things as “both.” Is the Church a place where people find their spiritual path, or is it a moneymaking corporation? Well, it’s both. Is the Church helpful or is it damaging? It’s both. If I had a group of TBMs make a list of things that they thought described the Church, and combined that list with a list of things that ex-Mormons thought described the Church, I could point to that combined list and say, “Yes, the Church is ALL of those things.”

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.