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In our SS class someone mentioned that He can’t see that God will ever love him because he smokes, or that he can ever be a cause for good because he sins. If he sins he is of no use to anyone else. This man admitted to being severely abused as a child and that he was repeated-idly told that he was worthless. I can completely understand his feelings and I can understand his confusion regarding God. He mentioned places in the scriptures that teach that God will eventually cut you off. Such as the story of Noah and destroying the wicked people. He said that the scriptures are full of examples of this scary God that gets sick of wicked people. My heart ached for him b/c last year I had similar beliefs. I told him that my personal beliefs were that those stories were influenced by the culture and are mans interpretations regarding God. I also said that I don’t think that God sees just in black and white. He created all of the colors and that it is beautiful to experience life in color instead of black and white. Well… you would have thought that I denounced Jesus. I could have argued, but I let the 5 people telling me that God DOES see in Black and white have it. But I can’t lie, it stirred some anger. I am trying to understand why I feel so angry, and I think part of it is that I was miserably afraid of God.. waiting for him to kill a member of my family b/c I wasn’t trying hard enough, I wasn’t close enough to him. He wanted to teach me a lesson. I can NOT go back to that scary God, nor do I want this poor man to think that he has to continue to believe that way. I said that I think it is damaging for anyone to live in black and white theories and damaging to the spirit… because it does seem that way to me. Trust me if I only saw black and white I would NOT have even been at church. This is yet another damaging reason for black and white beliefs. If the church is all good, then fine, but if a part of it is bad we tend to throw it all out. That isn’t how life works. As I am spiritually maturing I can understand this better.
The people that were arguing did say that “God can not look at sin with the least degree”? or something.. that the Savior makes up for all of our sins, so God CAN see in black and white and still love us. I can see how I would have been ok with this statement last year, but something would have still not added up and I would have gone home feeling like a sinning loser. Questions that I WANTED to argue but didn’t were:What about if you were hiding a Jew in your basement and the Natzi’s came.. should I lie? or tell the truth b/c God can not look at even a little lie.. or would the atonement make up for that “Sin”… That is absurd to me.. of COURSE that wouldn’t be a sin. God is smart enough to know our hearts.. therefor he doesn’t’ see in black and white. I also can’t lie that the really mean part of me (AKA: EGO OUT OF CONTROL) wanted to ask “Oh, so because Joseph Smith lied about practicing polygamy .. that wasn’t a lie? God was OK with that one?” But I didn’t say anything. I just let it go (which is really hard for me.. hence the reason I am still. talking. about. it. now!..
😆 Anyway, what are your thoughts about God seeing in Black and white? Maybe there is something that I need to learn here.. which is why I am so annoyed right now.
God does not see in black and white. …. or gray. God sees in color.
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If by seeing in black and white someone means that God sees and understands all truth and, therefore, isn’t “confused” by gray areas (areas where we don’t see clearly) – that God doesn’t “see through a glass, darkly” but rather sees everything clearly – I can understand why people would say God sees in black and white. It’s not how I would phrase it, but I understand why someone else would say that. If, however, they mean that God expects everyone to act in exactly the same way, which happens to be the way they believe everyone should act (meaning that God sees everything exactly like they see everything) – or that God doesn’t value differences, obviously I don’t agree.
I think in cases like this it’s really important to understand what people are trying to say and not just the words they use when they talk. So often, we hear certain words and phrases and automatically assume the person using them means exactly what we would mean if we were using them – like, for example, “I know the Church is true” – or “salvation” (when a Mormon is talking with most Protestants). The exact same words can mean many different things to different people who say them.
I don’t know exactly what each person meant in the conversation you described, although I probably disagree with them about at least some aspects of a conversation about the topic – but I honestly could make a really good, logical argument for answering the title question with either a “Yes” or a “No”.
That is so sad. Basically you had people at church telling that man that God is cruel and evil. And then they probably went home feeling great about themselves. Sick. I read this quote just today about one man’s view of God from the Bible, “the most unpleasant character in all fiction.” (Richard Dawkins). He really doesn’t come off well from the Bible, does he? On the issue of black and white, have those people read the story of Nephi slaying Laban. . . seems a little gray to me. The best example I can think of for a non-B&W God is the Samaritan Woman at the Well (John 4:3-42). This is such a profound story on so many fronts, but I’ll simply point out for the purposes of this discussion that the mere fact that he even went through Samaria and then SPOKE to a Samaritan woman is huge. He never called her or them to repentance, and seemed to be offering something based on faith and worship and spiritual living, rather than commanding to repent and to be cleansed from sin. He accepted her as she was and offered to add “everlasting life” to her. Curtis is right, so much of the issue is the limitations of language and words being used, and those can be hurtful at times. If we look past the words and try to understand others’ hearts, it helps…but that is pretty difficult to do…especially in a group setting. I can accept that God cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance. I could make a point that in that regard He sees black and white…sin or no sin, and that He requires clean sinless children to return to His presence.
Here is the problem with ending the thought at that point…that leaves the Celestial Kingdom as God and Jesus. No one else, right?
No one would agree with that, because He prepares a way for His children to become in that state of perfection to return to Him. The Atonement is needed because we are all sinners, we are all outside the black and white, we are all “in the middle” of working on becoming who we are (as Pres Uchtdorf states), and we are all worthwhile to be saved.
Taken to a literal meaning…black and white thinking cuts us all off and ruins the Plan of Salvation. Therefore…while that is one analogy (trying to put colors to the salvation of souls…which is an inadequate and non-literal analogy), it is not a perfect analogy and only a fool would take it as literal and at face value.
It helps some people express what they are trying to express in their beliefs..that sin is not something to gloss over as “no big deal”. It is a big deal…and must be repented of. I could agree with them on that. But to take that analogy so far as to make a smoker feel worthless in the site of God while the rest of the sinners in the classroom shun him…um…there is a gross problem with that extreme scenario, and frankly not one that likely reflects the true nature of the classroom.
I have found, whether most people can grasp or express ideas in terms of the beauty of all the colors of the rainbow (see my prism avatar), there are a lot of good people at church who are loving and kind and would not condemn the sinner. They are just at conflict with themselves trying so hard to shun sin that they don’t always know how to handle it when they are faced with it, because it scares them to tolerate it when they personally are trying so hard to avoid it in their lives. That is about them and where they are at…it isn’t about the church, the church teachings, or God and whether He is color blind or not. I don’t even think it is truly how they feel inside…they are just inadequate in expressing it and may be over-emphasizing one part of the issue, even if they would agree with you on many other parts like God loves and forgives and see worth in all of us.
But I would probably be moved to talk privately to the smoker after class…and let Him know his value and inherent worth. I wouldn’t want to know someone else feels worthless. That’s just not right. That is sad. Such is the life when we do the religion thing in a group of imperfect, sinning souls who all see through the glass darkly.
cwald wrote:God
does not see in black and white. …. or gray.
God sees in color.
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This.
I believe God knows people’s thoughts and all the processes that get us somewhere. Therefore God will be a fairer judge than any human.
But if you want an example of black and white opinions look no further than the aforementioned Richard Dawkins.
If God is a loving, fair, and merciful God then he cannot work in only black and white. The only thing I can say is that God exists he sees things very differently than we see them. Thanks for all of you input. It is great to try to see things in different perspectives. Something that I am not well practiced in as I don’t feel I was ever encouraged to do so from church. Its great when you embrace the diversity of thought and perspective, despite not being taught to do so. Its liberating. I think it helps me feel closer to God.
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