Mormon "Magic"

I no longer believe in Mormon Magic either, but not so long ago I did. I HAVE had experiences that I prayed to find my keys and then found them. It seemed miraculous at the time, especially since the story I am thinking of involved taking the missionaries on splits and running late for our set appointments and the person being taught got baptized later that week. I have prayed for things and seen them come to pass, and I have had MANY more prayer experiences that have not been answered.

I have a really close friend whose husband was “inspired” to be called as a High Priest. They are in the process of moving out of state. After this call from the Bishop and “miraculous” happenings, they are considering not accepting the job and staying to see why the Lord would call him. A year ago I would have full heartedly agreed that it was from God, now I am just confused at all of this because the way she described some of the happenings seemed more than just coincidence, yet I don’t believe that God is a vending machine. I think I believe that we have power within ourselves and that we may manifest our beliefs, or maybe it is just opening my eyes to see these “manifestations”… for example.. when my husband got a new truck, I noticed that SO many people had the exact same truck, or when I was pregnant I saw pregnant women everywhere. I guess what I am trying to say or even ask is where did all of those “miracles” that have happened in my life came from? Was it all in my head?

Recently I feel that I can’t trust myself because I have tricked myself into believing in all of this and now that I find out that I have been tricked, I wont let myself be tricked again. I don’t like my apathy. I really miss feeling that there was a power that I could “give my problems to” and felt secure. Some days I am secure with not knowing , today is a bad day for me losing my faith. I know it eb and flows, but sometimes I miss my childlike faith.

Recently I feel that I can’t trust myself because I have tricked myself into believing in all of this and now that I find out that I have been tricked, I wont let myself be tricked again. I don’t like my apathy. I really miss feeling that there was a power that I could “give my problems to” and felt secure. Some days I am secure with not knowing , today is a bad day for me losing my faith. I know it eb and flows, but sometimes I miss my childlike faith.

I, too, have had Mormon magic moments and in my TBM days I fully believed they were what I thought they were – small miracles and indications that God really knew me and was involved in my life. But I also realized over time that such things were the exception rather than the rule and that many more times prayers about more important things went unanswered. Therefore, like you, I can’t trust myself and fear being tricked again, and like you, I miss that childlike faith as well.

Convert 1992, I don’t disagree that we should teach truth about prayer, and I do believe prayer can be calming and clear one’s head. I do believe some prayers are actually answered, but I don’t know how God decides which to answer and which to ignore, and which things are actually answers to prayers and which things are just coincidence or happenstance. Generally speaking I do not believe God has any interest in the trivial matters of our lives – the kinds of things often the subject of this Mormon magic. I don’t share my thoughts about prayer with my younger children, and actually didn’t share it with my 20-something daughter, I just gave her the cliche and was actually a bit surprised at her response. My children are free to draw their own conclusions about prayer independent of any input by me, with the exception of knowing that I do not generally participate in prayer. It is likewise with Mormon magic.

I wonder how much relation or evolution there is from the spirits in Joseph’s day that were called upon to discover hidden treasure to the spirit now being used to “…find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures”

Generally speaking I do not believe God has any interest in the trivial matters of our lives – the kinds of things often the subject of this Mormon magic.

Actually, DarkJedi, I agree with that statement. One of things that separates us from other Christian movements is that we have a very complex description of the eternities. I remember being a new convert and being puzzled by the LDS teaching that Jesus, not Heavenly Father created the world. This is a concept totally foreign to other Christians, and not just because they think Jesus was God. But many degrees of enlightenment later, I began to understand how deeply meaningful this teaching is. After all, if an exalted being was many levels of spiritual witness higher than the level associated with Creation, it could follow that Heavenly Father couldn’t be directly involved in something so … well, primitive. At this point, I also began to appreciate the Mormon phrase “return and report” in a context other than the merely administrative (as in the stake president returning to report to the Area Seventy).

But at the same time, I do believe that there is still a power or influence (or consciousness?) that we as humans have yet to be able to commonly tap into on a regular basis. I do not doubt that there is something about the Temple that has to do with our ability to be able to tap into this, and that is the basis for my continued support of the Church even after having thoroughly deconstructed myth concepts.

Do you have a (better) term for those little miracles or blessings that probably really aren’t miracles or any more of a blessing than anything else?

Life 🙂

I believe there are times when God reaches through the veil, so to speak, and the heavens open in ways that are unexplainable. “Miraculous”, at the root, simply means “unexplainable” – so I do believe in the basic need to retain a wonder for the miraculous. Most times, I believe that simply means accepting that some things will remain unexplainable until further light and knowledge make them explainable – often through scientific advance. There have been a very small number of times in my life, however, when something has happened that defied logical explanation outside of some kind of spiritual realm – something that might remain “miraculous” for as long as humans exist.

If I hadn’t experienced such things, I might not believe in them – but I have, so I do.

Why is praying to locate car keys associated with Mormons history. I am not trying to be rude here, I just don’t understand this concern. Are we the only church that believes in prayer and that God answers them? Good grief. When I was working at the tire factory in college, my boss who was religous and not LDS and happened to be black. He could not find his keys and had searched the whole factory. I suggested he pray about it and he did and then found them. Are we suggesting that anyone who prays to God and then finds what they need is invoking Mormon magic or does that just apply to us because our history has been pegged by being started by someone who was a seeker of magic? Incidentally, looking for magic stones and treasure was a common practice of Joseph Smith’s day and he was not in any way unique because of this, so I guess most religions can say they have had prominent members at one point in their histories that were guilty of this. I have noticed in life that generally speaking, whether LDS or not, those who get their prayers answered of things they are seeking or even dumb luck are more optomist but pessismist are better at fixing problems because they focus on them and therefor find ways of fixing them.This is just to say we obtain what we focus on. I will say that not every decision made by ward leaders is inspired though, but often they are.

Why is praying to locate car keys associated with Mormons history. Are we the only church that believes in prayer and that God answers them? Good grief. When I was working at the tire factory in college, my boss who was religous and not LDS and happened to be black. He could not find his keys and had searched the whole factory. I suggested he pray about it and he did and then found them.

I think you’re missing an important nuance here. Many Mormons believe that the Melchizedek Priesthood gives a worthy man actual power to command the physical world. Other churches just pray and ask God to do it for them. I used to believe there was a difference and I would on occasion actually command things to happen, and oftentimes it would work. One time, pain went away suddenly. Fortunately, none of this kept me from deconstructing, because regardless of how many seemingly miraculous things happen, the BOM and JS myth stories just don’t make sense.

Remember when Monson gave a talk where he told the story of a Mormon who was shot down over the Pacific and used his priesthood to command a US submarine to surface?

I agree with Convert1992. There is an important nuance here in that many faithful Mormons believe there is some actual almost magical power in prayer and/or the priesthood. I don’t deny that Joseph Smith’s prayer was answered in some way – I do believe he had a profound spiritual experience that day. I also believe other scriptural references in relation to answers to prayer – some prayers (not all) are answered. On the other hand, I also believe many members way too quickly attribute some things to answers to prayer or blessings when they are coincidence or are a natural consequence of their actions – if you look for your keys long enough and with enough intensity, assuming they are actually there, you are going to find them. And, “finding lost keys” is a bit of a cliche and can be applied to many other ideas of “Mormon magic.” Other examples might include the car not starting, your cat missing, not dying from food poisoning after every meal (OK, I’m getting carried away). Could some of these be answers to prayer? Sure, and if that’s what you believe, fine, I’m not going to argue with you or make fun of you (at least to your face).

There is another whole aspect to this and why it’s Mormon magic specifically, and that is illustrated by your story. You had to ask your boss if he prayed about it. We are not the only church that believes prayers are answered but as far as I can tell in my interactions with those of many other faiths/churches, we are the only ones who believe prayers are answered to any great extent or frequency and most other Christians, in particular, actually only believe in prayer as a form of worship and/or a way to offer gratitude to God – they wouldn’t think of asking God to help them find their keys or lost cat because they don’t see it as something God does. I have tried to carefully word this so as not to indicate that I believe all Christians or other religions or churches believe this way, because they don’t. I also don’t think all Mormons believe all prayers are answered, even finding your keys, because not all do – but a lot do. Hence, it’s Mormon magic because we’re in a Mormon setting and if it happens it’s likely to be a Mormon talking about it.