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My views of God are more metaphorical. Maybe God is nothing more than the laws of physics, or maybe God is our own unconscious thoughts and drives. Or maybe God is those things and a bunch of other things. Or maybe God is the collective consciousness of all of us, and the good in all of us. For those who have a metaphorical/non-literal view of God, how do you discuss God with other people, especially TBMs? Since God has a much different meaning for you than it does for most TBMs, how do you talk about God with them? Do you use the term as most TBMs use it, even though you know that it means something different to you than it does to them?
It seems to me that the Book of Mormon is very literalistic in its treatment of God, and the God of the Book of Mormon is proactive in dealing with people and is responsive to prayers. How do non-literal believers discuss stories where God creates and executes complex plans for specific reasons when non-literal believers don’t really believe that such a literal anthropomorphic being exists and is capable of creating and executing such complex plans?
I’ve enjoyed a lot of the metaphors, stories, and symbols that are part of the LDS faith, but when people start talking about how God carefully thought things through and reached down to Earth and executed a plan (as would be found in the Book of Mormon) I find myself not really wanting to engage in the discussion. How do non-literal believers handle this?
That’s a tough question, IM, and the answer for me is that I simply don’t try to engage TBM types in such conversations nor do I allow them to engage me. I understand very well the general LDS view of God, having been a TBM and literal believer myself at one point. I therefore understand where they are coming from and also understand that they are not interested in nor do they agree with my point of view and concept of God (which appears to be somewhere between yours and the general LDS view). In on-on-one situations it’s easy enough to change the subject. Angry Birds was invented for class situations, or if you want a more spiritual experience read the scriptures. Simple. I don’t. Most TBMs are going to project the church’s beliefs of god to most other members, especially if you’re an active member. They won’t make that assumption that a member will have a different view of god so I use that and keep my mouth shut.
InquiringMind wrote:My views of God are more metaphorical. Maybe God is nothing more than the laws of physics, or maybe God is our own unconscious thoughts and drives. Or maybe God is those things and a bunch of other things. Or maybe God is the collective consciousness of all of us, and the good in all of us.
The funny thing, if you were a character in the BoM Ammon might look at you after you said that and offer up a simple “This is God” and let it ride.
In their language, according to their understanding. Curtis wrote:In their language, according to their understanding.
That would make a funny scene to have two StayLDSers speaking passed each other in TBM language and understanding because they both thought the other was TBM.
Unknown wrote:Curtis wrote:In their language, according to their understanding.
That would make a funny scene to have two StayLDSers speaking passed each other in TBM language and understanding because they both thought the other was TBM.
It would probably make a pretty funny Studio C skit!
InquiringMind wrote:
For those who have a metaphorical/non-literal view of God, how do you discuss God with other people, especially TBMs? Since God has a much different meaning for you than it does for most TBMs, how do you talk about God with them? Do you use the term as most TBMs use it, even though you know that it means something different to you than it does to them?
Yes, I teach a 12 step class for SS. I speak in the TBM language and “bear testimony” of God and Jesus, even though I don’t believe in the TBM way, but I can now bear testimony and have conviction in what I say because I translate from my head/heart to TBM language. And some thoughts I keep 100% to myself.
opentofreedom wrote:InquiringMind wrote:
For those who have a metaphorical/non-literal view of God, how do you discuss God with other people, especially TBMs? Since God has a much different meaning for you than it does for most TBMs, how do you talk about God with them? Do you use the term as most TBMs use it, even though you know that it means something different to you than it does to them?
Yes, I teach a 12 step class for SS. I speak in the TBM language and “bear testimony” of God and Jesus, even though I don’t believe in the TBM way, but I can now bear testimony and have conviction in what I say because I translate from my head/heart to TBM language. And some thoughts I keep 100% to myself.
No offense intended,here, but bearing testimony is different from engaging in a conversation about God. I can also bear testimony that God lives, Jesus Christ is our Savior, etc. A discussion implies going deeper than that, and that’s where the trouble lies.
I can see what you are saying and no offense at all. I do try to avoid spiritual topics with those I once would have enjoyed such discussions, but I sometimes find myself in these types of discussions with people who are close friends yet have no clue of my FT, are still TBM. But all conversations depend on the person I am talking to. It wont do any good for me to try to explain my views to some people, so I don’t. I just go along. Sometimes I don’t feel like I am being true to myself, but I feel less and less that way as I get better and better at re-translating what the TBM says to my new beliefs. Does that make any sense at all? I am thinking of a discussion I had with my friend who was talking about the atonement and forgiveness, I was able to feel somewhat comfortable, say what I really believed in a way that was true to me (and made her none the wiser of my beliefs), and we both walked away feeling “spiritually satisfied”. … if this were a church history topic I would have had a much harder time feeling comfortable.
But in all honestly most of the time I just have to sacrifice what I would “really” say and not say anything or just agree. I don’t care for people to know what I believe as I did a few months ago. I am glad this is getting easier because this was the most difficult part of my FT because I OFTEN talked of God and spiritual things, most of my close friendships were based on these discussions. I have never been one to talk of “trivial” things, so this has been hard and I have grown distant with some of my dearest friends who are TRUE TBMS to the core. But the discussion I mentioned above was with one of these dear friends and it was great to feel close to her again and know that I can be around her without being so afraid of what was going to come out of my mouth. My filtering and “translation skills” have improved so much over the past few months.
Our dear forum member Orson has mentioned this subject a number of times. I’d be interested in hearing some more of his perspective. Hint, hint. 
Funny thing happened…well not so funny.. just Karma in action. I felt all confident posting how much better I am getting at being able to converse openly with TBMs, then last night I had a hard experience and I was paying more attention (because of this post) to see what I “really” do. Well, I had to bite my tongue and pretend A LOT. I was sort of open, but I wasn’t being understood at all so I just had to resign to “pretend’. It left me feeling sad and alone. Grateful to have this forum for support. I think the topic of “God” is easier than doctrinal things (Such as temple blessings, pre-mortal life, LGBT issues).. I just have to not talk about these things.
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