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One of the hardest parts of my FT has been examining my relationship with Christ and considering the possibility that Jesus either never actually existed or that he was simply human and didn’t really perform the atonement and resurrection. The relationship has felt real and would be the hardest thing to let go of. Pondering the life and doctrine of Jesus has me questioning the second coming and the future of the church. If say, 1,2 or 500 years from now Christ has not returned to reign on his glory, how could Mormonism/Christianity survive? I know sects, including ours have been preaching the imminent coming of Christ for a LONG time, but how long could this continue? Will we forever fall back to “nobody knows when it will be”. Or will we all come to view the second coming as also a symbolic event that takes place in our hearts as we are converted to the teachings of love?
What do you think about the second coming? Has your views of it changed as you’ve confronted various other doubts?
Honestly, I don’t think about it at all. If it happens, I figure I’ve been doing the best I know; if not, I figure I’ve been doing the best I know. I liked that Pres. Packer said recently to the youth that they shouldn’t obsess over it and that it probably won’t happen (or won’t happen, I don’t remember off the top of my head) in their lifetime.
Like Curtis I don’t give it a whole lot of thought. I do believe Jesus did exist and that he was at least a great teacher or prophet, but I don’t know about the atonement, resurrection, etc., either. My faith transition also had me wondering if there was even a need for a Savior or atonement. I have also wondered how long we can continue to say “soon” in relation to any second coming. So, yes, my view of the second coming has changed with my faith transition, but I don’t know what it has changed into and I don’t much care. I am of the mind it’s not going to happen in my lifetime (which is realistically only about 30 more years barring unforeseen accident or disease) and I find myself more concerned with the final judgement than the second coming. In relation to that I am also like Curits – I have done the best I can and what I wholeheartedly believe are the right things to do. If I’m wrong and end up in the Telestial Kingdom because of it, so be it, and if that’s hell for me, so be it. I don’t think the loving, merciful Heavenly Father taught by the church points to that, though. I agree with what was said. Although I used to think about it all the time because I was encouraged to. I find that very stressful and not helpful at all. If there is any positive fruit in this I have yet to experience it.
It’s the principe if a immanent demise. Or a Denise we don’t want to be a part in. Which is a decision based on fear. I find fear based decisions to be the least helpful or important.
Make good decisions on the information you have available and with your conscious without stressing to much about it.
Not based on the information or stress and experience you wish you had. Not on stress and not in fear.
But in love and compassion.
In short, don’t sweat it. It will figure itself out in due course.
Random question: If the Second Coming is an event that’s actually going to happen, will there still be spirits in the pre-mortal realm? If so, what happens to them? Do they just get sent to other worlds? Yeah, big picture theology gets wonky quickly when every detail is taken literally. DontKnow wrote:Random question: If the Second Coming is an event that’s actually going to happen, will there still be spirits in the pre-mortal realm? If so, what happens to them? Do they just get sent to other worlds?
Saw a movie that had the end begin when the last spirit was born. 11th hour or 11th sign, something like that.
Different churches deal with this in different ways. When they have clear prophecies about date ranges then they tend to do the whole “it was a spiritual occurance” thing. I don’t see that in our own church. If anything, we are getting less and less apocalyptic as time goes on.
Any time a talk or lesson brings up the 2nd coming I automatically tune out. Fortunately it doesn’t seem to come up as often now as it did when I was a teenager. The unofficial mantra “the wicked will burn” caused way too much stress for many members of the church in my opinion. The year 2000 – or a few years on either side (due to human time keeping inconsistencies)- seemed like a good, solid timeline to believe in a 2nd coming. I could see round numbered years like 2100 or 3000 generating some attention as 2nd coming possibilities. However, I’m not sure how much sway religion will have over the population as a whole in mankind’s future.
Also, the thought that billions of wicked will literally burn in flames strikes me as something a vengeful god, not a loving Heavingly Father, would do.
Curtis wrote:Honestly, I don’t think about it at all. If it happens, I figure I’ve been doing the best I know; if not, I figure I’ve been doing the best I know.
I liked that Pres. Packer said recently to the youth that they shouldn’t obsess over it and that it probably won’t happen (or won’t happen, I don’t remember off the top of my head) in their lifetime.
Yes do not think about it. There is nothing to be gained from agonizing abut the return of Jesus.
I think the Second Coming is perhaps the scariest topic to teach about in church to contemporary Latter-Day Saints who are products of late 20th century American civilization. It really separates the hard-core TBMs from the moderate TBMs and everyone else. It has everything a figurative believer recoils against: a wrathful God, end of the world, Biblical literalism, and (for us) BOM literalism. Roy wrote:DontKnow wrote:Random question: If the Second Coming is an event that’s actually going to happen, will there still be spirits in the pre-mortal realm? If so, what happens to them? Do they just get sent to other worlds?
Saw a movie that had the end begin when the last spirit was born. 11th hour or 11th sign, something like that.
Different churches deal with this in different ways. When they have clear prophecies about date ranges then they tend to do the whole “it was a spiritual occurance” thing. I don’t see that in our own church. If anything, we are getting less and less apocalyptic as time goes on.
The Seventh Sign. The Guf is emptied.
Considering how bizarre the current world is, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s soon. Never heard the church talk much about the Antichrist though. It’s almost avoided.
convert1992 wrote:I think the Second Coming is perhaps the scariest topic to teach about in church to contemporary Latter-Day Saints who are products of late 20th century American civilization. It really separates the hard-core TBMs from the moderate TBMs and everyone else. It has everything a figurative believer recoils against: a wrathful God, end of the world, Biblical literalism, and (for us) BOM literalism.
Seems to me that everything worth caring about in those lessons are things you should care about for their own sake, anyway. And the rest of it is just terror-striking.
I feel that many teachings related to the second coming can train the mind to only see the negative things to be found in the world. The negative things going on in the world become a tool used to validate faith, so in some ways the negative becomes the focus. If taken to the extreme one can completely miss out on the good that is going on in the world. I don’t mean to turn this into a debate on whether there is more good or more evil in the world, I just bring it up because lately I’ve heard a lot of gloom and doom talk. I’ve also seen people get caught up in looking for ways in which they are being persecuted. Maybe that’s their thing, to each their own, but it would be depressing thinking that it’s bad and it’s only going to get worse. I guess the second coming is the light at the end of that tunnel.
Kirby in the SLTrib had this to say about the 2nd coming in is article about becoming a good.
Quote:There is also the New Testament God who promised to return “soon” but hasn’t yet, sparking a 2,000 year-old debate that so far has produced nothing but long winded church
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